new tanks woes

[Wallygator]

I am starting up a 20 gallon for my kids. I have maintained a 75 gallon in the past for myself. I am having some issues with ammonia and ph. I cant seem to clear out ammonia and the ph drops like a rock (tap water is about 8.0).
Could there be something with the rocks or decorative stuff that would cause such poor water quality?? The rocks were the same as, but not used in, my other tank, and they didnt cause me any grief before. The decorative stuff, some larger rocks and a fake log thingie, was from an old tank that I had set up for my wife's classroom, but the tank was never stocked. I dont understand what would cause the ph to drop and the ammonia to build when I havent introduced fish yet.

 

[Purrbox]

Is there Ammonia or Chloramines in your tap water? Are you sure that your test kit is good? Have you verified your results against another kit? What kind of kit are you using (test strips, liquid, dry tabs)? Could any of your decor be rotting causing the Ammonia spike?

For the tap water pH, was it measured after letting the water set at least 24hrs? If the Ammonia results are valid, then they could be messing with your pH levels.

 

[Wallygator]

in tap water -ammonia i guess, but i havent tested tap water prior to putting it into the tank.
test kit good, heh, I would hope so, but no I have not crossed the results with another test. The tests I have done are from a liquid test kit.
I don't believe any decor could be rotting.
I wasnt aware that testing tap water after sitting 24 hrs. was prerequisite. I have tap water aging now and will test later. What is the purpose for this? Does it give water an opportunity to out gas?
The local aquarium shop I use has informed me that municipal tap water is high in ammonia and would require heavier treatment to combat this on a normal basis.

 

[mr86mister]

What might also work. You can let your tap water sit for 24 hrs as well as adding whats called Tap Water Conditioner. Its a chemical, usually a drop per gallon that removes the heavy metals from the water. Is everything from your tank brand new?(filtration,substrate,decor, etc.)

 

[Purrbox]

The reason for leaving some tap water out for 24hrs is so that the CO2 can out gas and allow you to get a true reading of your tap water since CO2 lowers the pH of the water. It's also a good idea to test all parameter of your tap water since it allows you to know what you are putting into your aquarium so that your aquarium test results will make more sense.

Since your water contains Ammonia you'll want to make sure to use a good tap water conditioner like Prime to deal with it. Make sure to follow the directions for dosing extra to neutralize the Ammonia. Your test kit will mostly likely still read the Ammonia levels but it won't be in a dangerous form to the fish anymore.

The reason you aren't seeing high Ammonia levels in your established aquairum but you are in the new one, is that your established aquarium has enough beneficial bacteria in the biological filter to handle the Ammonia from the tap. You're new one still needs to be cycled so that it can convert the Ammonia to Nitrite and then Nitrate.

 

[Wallygator]

How long should it take to get bio-cycle goin? Will the Nitrates then need to be neutralized? So far I have added Cycle to the water and let is sit for a week, then changed some water and added a little more Cycle.
I will check the tap water I set out after reading Purrbox's post. What else should I be doing or doing instead?

 

[Wallygator]

To answer mr86mister, substrate isnt 'new' but I dont think that I used it in a tank for many yrs. I rinsed it well before adding it to tank. The decor -some rocks and fake driftwood, were in a tank that was set up but never contained fish.
The tank itself was used previously as a 'sick fish' tank but has sat empty for a few years.

 

[Wallygator]

What kind of filtration would you recommend? I usually use jets/gravel filtration with frequent water changes to maintain tank. This may make you tank maestros cringe, I would have to plead ignorance, but it has worked for me in the past.
The head I have in there now is Top Fin 30. It seems to be a noisy beast. Does 'noise' bother the fishies?

 

[Purrbox]

Nitrates are kept in check with regular water changes. These also help reduce docs and other buildup in the aquarium. Nitrates are not toxic to fish until they reach very high levels.

It seems most people either love or hate undergravel filters. If they are working for you and you like them and can maintain them, there's really no reason to change. Personally I'd go with either a HOB or Canister filter. For HOB the Aquaclears are an excellant choice. There are several good choices for Canister filters, but I've not had a chance to try any of them yet.

 

[Wallygator]

Okay so I checked tap water after letting it sit:
ph 7.4
NO2 0.2
NH3 1.0

 

[Purrbox]

That's definately your source of Ammonia and Nitrite in your unstocked aquarium. Use a good dechlorinator like Prime with extra dosing to neutralize the Ammonia and Nitrite and you should be fine.

 

[Wallygator]

So is that adequate for keeping the cycle going or should I add more ammonia? Still an odd concept to me, but I see the logic in it.

 

[Dennis210]

Save alot of headaches - quit using tap water. It's content will vary and cause problems actually. Use Ro water when you mix. And in a small tank like a 20 gallon you will have to let it fully cycle. Do you have a sand bed, live rock or anyway of completing nitrogen cycle. If not then a multistage cannister with nitrite/nitrate absorbing resins will really help - as would a skimmer.

 

[Purrbox]

So is that adequate for keeping the cycle going or should I add more ammonia? Still an odd concept to me, but I see the logic in it.

If you're going to do a fishless cycle, then I would recommend dosing upto 4ppm of Ammonia until you start to see Nitrates, then cut back to 2ppm of Ammonia until the cycle complete. This will allow for a larger biofilter that will handle fish in addition to your tapwater ammonia.

Save alot of headaches - quit using tap water. It's content will vary and cause problems actually. Use Ro water when you mix. And in a small tank like a 20 gallon you will have to let it fully cycle. Do you have a sand bed, live rock or anyway of completing nitrogen cycle. If not then a multistage cannister with nitrite/nitrate absorbing resins will really help - as would a skimmer.

Dennis - While your recommendations are excellant for a SW aquarium, this post is in the Freshwater and Brackish forum. For the majority of freshwater aquariums tapwater is perfectly fine, and using RO water just introduces unnecessary expense and hastle for water changes.

 

[TomK2]

Wallygator:

I have a link for you to review:

test kit chemistry

I am puzzled by your nitrite reading in your tap water. Is your tap water from a groundwater supply, such as well water?

It is rare for municipal water to have ammonia and nitrite in it, but common for municipal supplies to add chloramine instead of chlorine. Chloramine will turn you AP ammonia test kit positive. However, unless that nitrite level is an error, you also have nitrite in your tap water. You did not report a nitrate level from the tap, did you test the tap water for nitrate? Rural areas with agriculture can have ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate run off from fertilizer in the ground water, which can come out of the tap, would that describe your situation?