New to forums, have a few questions.

[Alvarez]

Hi, I am new to the forums and have been looking for a forum for advice on fish. I have been leaching all the advice I can from my LFS but between myself and my son's questions I am sure the employees are ready to kick me out LOL

I recently got a 56 gallon tank, its a 30 inch tank but tall. I have a Bala Shark, Rainbow Shark, Iridescent Shark, 5 zebra danios, 1 leopard Danio, 1 Clown Loach, and 1 Plecostomus. I know the Bala, Plecostomus, and the Iridescent will outgrow the tank and the LFS has said that they will take the fish back and give me a discount on anything I buy when I return them.

I originally had a betta and another clown loach but I believe they got in to a fight as the Betta's fins were ripped to shreds and both fish died within the same 24 hour period.

I am learning quickly, however there is a lot I need to know. When I do water changes am I supposed to remove all the fish and do it? Or do I risk the fish getting spooked and frightened as I pull out 20% of the water and replace? How often should I do water changes? I have heard 2 times a month. I have heard 1 time a month. I have heard every 1 1/2 months.

Cichlid's cannot be mixed into a community tank such as mine right? (i.e. Frontosa, Yellow lab) Are there ANY freshwater puffers that can be mixed in community tanks? I have considered getting a divider for the tank for a puffer but have been told a plecostomus prolly couldn't even be kept with a puffer so 50% water changes are needed often.

My son and I come up with a lot of ideas, but we try not to act on them too quickly till we have some information. I don't want the fish to pay for my ignorance and am trying to avoid this.

Thanks for any help!

 

[QTOFFER]

Welsome to AA, Alvarez!
Don't worry, we won't kick you out for asking lots of questions!

First off, you're making a very wise decision to trade in the sharks and pleco. If you want a pleco (and who doesn't?), there are several dwarf species for you to choose from, including bristlenose and rubberlip plecos. They do a great job grazing green algae and eating any food that falls into the gravel.

If you're new to fishkeeping, check out the articles section to learn about the nitrogen cycle. Your fish won't do well until there is a healthy colony of bacteria in the tank and filter to process their waste. Time and patience is needed.

When you do water changes, it is not necessary to move the fish. Fish love water changes the way dogs love being scratched behind the ears. They soon become used to the gravel vac and will do laps around the tank in anticipation when they see you approaching with the hose or bucket.

I would recommend doing 25 - 50% changes with a light gravel vac once a week. Also, I heartily recommend a piece of equipment called a Python. It attaches to your sink and allows you to remove and replace the water without lugging buckets around. You adjust the temperature of the replacement water by using both the hot and cold taps. It's important to add a dechlorinator as the tank is refilling.

There ARE cichlids that will do well in a community tank (angelfish and rams), but we need to know what your water hardness and pH are. You should pick up kits for these two parameters as well as kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

I don't know too much about puffers, but I believe that they all require brackish water to some degree.

Good luck!

 

[Alvarez]

I have had the tank running for about a month and a half. I have made it through 2 water changes. You recommend more than a 20% water change though???

Also when the LFS sold me the aquarium he sold me an undergravel filter with the aquarium and said I wouldn't have to vacuum the gravel. Is that incorrect and I need to get a vac???

Thank you soooo very much for the python recommendation! where my aquarium is, it fits perfectly however upper access to the aquarium is somewhat restricted. I can get access to it enough to remove the fish, fit a smaller bowl in there to pull out water/etc but its pretty inconvenient!

At what size would you say I should trade in the Plec and the Iridescent? I keep having people assure me the Bala will not outgrow the tank, however I have read different in some places online.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Alvarez]

Oh, also is there a test you recommend for testing my PH etc???

I bought one of the 5 in 1 test strip things but it goes by color and I have noticed people mentioning a number like 1.1 and knowing they have 7.0 PH etc...

Here in Indiana I have been told PH is pretty high period, its just an Indiana thing, and on the PH 5 in 1 test it shows my PH being higher but the LFS said don't sweat it, it is just a little high.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You recommend more than a 20% water change though???

I perform water changes based on test results but its basically 25% weekly. The larger tank I do two 30% water changes weekly though. it depends on how high your Nitrates are.

Is that incorrect and I need to get a vac???

If you are using an undergravel filter then you DEFINATELY need to gravel vac. The fish waste gets pulled under the plates and just sits there, turning into a nitrate factory. The only way to get the waste out of the tank is to gravel vac. They are PITB's IMO because they require so much maintenance. Power Filters and Canisters are the preferred method of filtration since they are easier to maintain.

You do not need to take out the fish for water changes. I used to do it and found it to be a big pain. It causes more stress to the fish to chase them around and get them out of the tank than to just do a water change. Mine actually like the gravel vac. LOL

The Bala will definately need a larger tank. They also prefer to be in numbers and its just not feasible to have a school of balas together in a small tank. I'd trade them before they start to appear stressed. If it were me, I'd trade them now, but you could wait until they are 4 or 5 inches in size.

Aquarium Pharmecuticals makes an excellent Freshwater Master Test Kit. It tests for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and pH. It can be ordered from www.bigalsonline.com for about half of what the lfs sells them for. The test strips are not accurate and are very expensive compared to the liquid reagent kits.

pH really doesn't matter because the fish that you get from the lfs are already acclimated to your water conditions (pH wise). I wouldn't worry about it. Not unless you plan on breeding.

 

[Alvarez]

You recommend more than a 20% water change though???

I perform water changes based on test results but its basically 25% weekly. The larger tank I do two 30% water changes weekly though. it depends on how high your Nitrates are.

Is that incorrect and I need to get a vac???

If you are using an undergravel filter then you DEFINATELY need to gravel vac. The fish waste gets pulled under the plates and just sits there, turning into a nitrate factory. The only way to get the waste out of the tank is to gravel vac. They are PITB's IMO because they require so much maintenance. Power Filters and Canisters are the preferred method of filtration since they are easier to maintain.

You do not need to take out the fish for water changes. I used to do it and found it to be a big pain. It causes more stress to the fish to chase them around and get them out of the tank than to just do a water change. Mine actually like the gravel vac. LOL

The Bala will definately need a larger tank. They also prefer to be in numbers and its just not feasible to have a school of balas together in a small tank. I'd trade them before they start to appear stressed. If it were me, I'd trade them now, but you could wait until they are 4 or 5 inches in size.

Aquarium Pharmecuticals makes an excellent Freshwater Master Test Kit. It tests for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and pH. It can be ordered from www.bigalsonline.com for about half of what the lfs sells them for. The test strips are not accurate and are very expensive compared to the liquid reagent kits.

pH really doesn't matter because the fish that you get from the lfs are already acclimated to your water conditions (pH wise). I wouldn't worry about it. Not unless you plan on breeding.

I have a emporer power filter and an undergravel filter with aeration tubes. Should I pull out the undergravel filter??? I Was under the impression the aeration tubes were needed? I know it causes a ton more bubbles in the tank. Also I don't think the waster is being sucked to the bottom of the tank. Anytime I move something of when I did a water change waste flew up everywhere. Its pretty dirty in there when you stir things up.

I have an emperor 280 filter with bio-wheel.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I would pull out the ugf. In the future when you take it out there will be TONS of fish waste that collected under it. They used to be "THE" filter to have several years ago but technology has changed and they are considered a thing of the past compared to the newer filters. Airation is not needed unless the temp in the tank is warmer than usual. You can add an airstone if you want.

 

[Alvarez]

So I should just go with the Emporer 280? You believe it will do the job ok? I questioned it because my tank is 56 gallons, however the LFS owner assured me it would be fine and that most aquariums are way under their max due to decorations and gravel, etc...

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I agree, get rid of the UGF and stay with the Emperor. Which one is it, the 280 or 400? I have the 400 on my 55G, and it's just perfect.

 

[Alvarez]

I agree, get rid of the UGF and stay with the Emperor. Which one is it, the 280 or 400? I have the 400 on my 55G, and it's just perfect.

It is the 280 (read post right before yours)

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I see we posted at the same time.

In the long run, the 280 might be a little too underpowered for your tank. Will do good at first, but if you get a larger bioload, the 280 may get maxed out and will be changing filter cartriges more often than necessary because of getting clogged. I'm finding this with my 26G and 280 and being overstocked. Once my fishless cycle on the 55G is complete, will move the bigger fish over, giving my 280 a big break. Depending on your hood, you might or might not fit the 400, because it's 16 inches wide.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Another possibility is to get a cannister filter to go along with the 280, then you'll be fine if you want to stay with it. With a cannister, the cannister will just go under the aquarium in the stand, and you'll just have an input tube and output tube running into the tank.

 

[Alvarez]

It is beginning to sound like almost all 3 of the pet stores around me don't know what they are talking about. The owner did mark everything down for me and it sounds like its a good thing because almost everything I got is wrong.

I have read posts of people using the emperor 280 with 55 gallon tanks before and it holding them at acceptable levels on other forums so I know its possible. However it may not be optimal evidently. My undergravel filter is evidently a total waste, and the fish they recommended and said would be ok may be stressed.

Color me depressed.

 

[Alvarez]

Another possibility is to get a cannister filter to go along with the 280, then you'll be fine if you want to stay with it. With a cannister, the cannister will just go under the aquarium in the stand, and you'll just have an input tube and output tube running into the tank.

Unfortunately the Aquarium fits perfectly into a corner shelf, I can open the aquarium hood but thats about all of my clearance... There is no room for a canister. here lemme show you what I mean.

 

[rich311k]

Thats a nice looking set up. Many LFS dont give out the greatest info. Remember they are in this to make money. Cheer up, you found us and we are here to help.

Rich

 

[bosk1]

You won't always get bad advice from the lfs, but it isn't uncommon either. In my short-term experience in getting back into the hobby after 20 years, I've found I get better advice from a community like this where people are actually keeping tanks and are into it enough to want to discuss their hobby on an internet site. Keep in mind that, even if the person at the lfs is the owner or a long-term employee, the conditions in the tanks they are keeping at the store are very different from the conditions you would want in a home aquarium.

As for your fish, it is true that the sharks, loach, and pleco will eventually get too big for your tank. But it will take a little while for that to happen, so you don't need to necessarily change your entire tank population all at once. You may want to just keep most of them for a little while and see which ones you grow attached to and which ones you can do without--as long as one of the lfs's will take them back later, which they probably would. Also, since I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, the loaches are a lot more fun in a group. They tend to exhibit much different behavior when you have a group of them. Problem: they get huge. I am exploring a couple of options, since I also love them and have a 55 g tank. I am either going to get a small group of them when they are tiny, and either trade them back in or upgrade to a larger tank once they get too big, OR I may go with yo-yo loaches instead. They have much more distinct and interesting markings, but aren't as colorful. But they are just as fun, I've been told. I'm going to get my lfs to get some in, and then I will make a decision once I have a look at a group of them.


EDIT: I think you posted your picture while I was typing this. That IS a good looking setup. One small concern I have from looking at your picure (and you've probably already looked into this, but I'll mention it anyway). Are you absolutely sure that shelf is strong enough and will supported enough to hold your tank? At 56 gallons, your tank weighs close to 500 pounds when full. I apologize if my question makes you more stressed or depressed. But I'm sure you would be happier looking into the problem and making sure everything is okay now than risking coming home one day and finding your tank in the fireplace (it looks like a fireplace in the pictures, anyway) below.

 

[Alvarez]

Thanks a ton rich! I guess I could get the higher powered filter and run on it and pull out the undergravel filter.

SO basically I need...

1) gravel vacuum cleaner
2) higher powered filter
3) Python syphon I believe it is called?

Should I carry over my Bio Wheel from the 280 to the 400 on one side or just let the 400 season on its own?

 

[rich311k]

1 and 3 are the same thing. You will need to run both filters for a while.

 

[Alvarez]

You won't always get bad advice from the lfs, but it isn't uncommon either. In my short-term experience in getting back into the hobby after 20 years, I've found I get better advice from a community like this where people are actually keeping tanks and are into it enough to want to discuss their hobby on an internet site. Keep in mind that, even if the person at the lfs is the owner or a long-term employee, the conditions in the tanks they are keeping at the store are very different from the conditions you would want in a home aquarium.

As for your fish, it is true that the sharks, loach, and pleco will eventually get too big for your tank. But it will take a little while for that to happen, so you don't need to necessarily change your entire tank population all at once. You may want to just keep most of them for a little while and see which ones you grow attached to and which ones you can do without--as long as one of the lfs's will take them back later, which they probably would. Also, since I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, the loaches are a lot more fun in a group. They tend to exhibit much different behavior when you have a group of them. Problem: they get huge. I am exploring a couple of options, since I also love them and have a 55 g tank. I am either going to get a small group of them when they are tiny, and either trade them back in or upgrade to a larger tank once they get too big, OR I may go with yo-yo loaches instead. They have much more distinct and interesting markings, but aren't as colorful. But they are just as fun, I've been told. I'm going to get my lfs to get some in, and then I will make a decision once I have a look at a group of them.

I had 2 loaches but as I said earlier the small one got into a fight with the betta I believe and they both died on the same day.

1 and 3 are the same thing. You will need to run both filters for a while.

AHHH so the gravel vac and the Python syphon are the same thing? Great! can it be put in reverse or something to fill the tank back up? The previous post mentioned it saved time moving buckets back and forth.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Thats a VERY nice looking setup. Envious.

As Rich pointed out, the lfs doesn't normally give great advice. I would also recommend a canister but since it is not really an option, you could go with a larger or additional hob. The 280 will filter 280 gph. Ideal filtration is about 6 to 5 times the tank size per hour. So if you purchase another hob filter to run in addition to the 280, you'll be fine.