New to mollies, they've been dying

[Faelrin]

I don't know if this the right forum or not for this, and if it isn't I hope someone could move it to the right one.

I'm absolutely freaking out right now, and I was really hesitant to post this, because I thought I knew what I was doing with them and I guess I don't and so I'm asking for help. I'm desperate. This is my first time having them and I tried to do as much research as I could when I got them, and I kept finding information that some people were saying yes do this, and others were saying no don't do this or that. I'm seriously confused and I'm wondering if my fish have been dying because of that.

So after asking for suggestions for my tank, I looked them up and found that none of those would probably survive in my tank because our water is hard here. So after looking up for fish that could survive (live bearer's) in my water, I went to the fish store and ended up going with two cremesicle lyretail mollies. Well I got home and got on the internet and researched like crazy (as well as acclimating them to both temperature first and then to my aquarium water before putting them in the tank). I saw already that one female was not enough and that I should have more. I used the one aquarium calculator out there and wanted to make sure I wasn't going to overstock the aquarium they would be in, and got two more a couple days after. So total of 4 fish in my ten gallon. I also added the api aquarium salt (2 tablespoons). There is also an automatic heater in the tank.

The females slowly started dying off. One after the first week (she was part of the second group), then the other (also part of the second group), and now my last female (and first) died either last night or this morning before I got up. Her belly was swollen and I'm wondering if it was because she was alone and she got stressed to death by the male, or if I wasn't feeding them properly in the first place (especially in the case of the first two since they died before I was able to pick up some food with spirulina in it), or a sickness. Her belly was not that swollen the day before.

I had been alternating tiny pinches of fish flakes, and bloodworms (one day fish flakes, one day bloodworms), until I could find some food with spirulina in it and started alternating and adding that in. The food I got with the spirulina were these small tank nibblets that you just press up against the side of the tank.


So I'd like to ask some questions and I want absolutely correct answers, because I'm sure my ignorance and maybe false information I found may have played a part in their deaths if it wasn't something else. I really don't like taking chances with living things which is why I researched like nuts the first day I got them, yet that wasn't enough apparently.

So are mollies brackish water fish and need salt? If they do what salt am I supposed to be using and how much per gallon or per 5 gallons?

What are they supposed to be eating? I'd like a feeding schedule to go off of too if possible so I can make sure I'm not under or overfeeding them.

Also final question even though this hasn't come to pass, I want to be ready if I'm going to keep these fish and if it does happen. If they breed, what do I do with the babies? What kind of tank should I get for them? Should I leave them to get eaten instead? Or is there a place I could take them to give them away or sell them away?

I just have the male left, and I want to get two more females for him so he's not alone, and because what I read up is that males don't get along with other males (is that even true?)

 

[mPhish]

It might be that they were sick when you got them. It is possible your swollen molly had dropsy, but don't buy medicine until you look it up and confirm thats what it was. One of my guppies randomly died for no reason. Don't beat yourself up, its all part of fish keeping. Do some research on fish illnesses and see if you can match symptoms. I wish I could help more! Also, guppies are livebearers too, and I have an all male tank. They all get along fine, i think your fish will breed if you have both genders. hope i helped.

 

[BBradbury]

Your Mollies

Hello Fae...

Mollies must have pure water conditions and a balanced diet. You should be changing out at least half the tank water every week, so slacking. Get some floating plants into the tank. Hornwort, Anacharis and Pennywort are all good. Put as many stems as possible in there.

Standard aquarium salt can be dosed a little bit. I'd dose roughly a couple of teaspoons in every 5 gallons of replacement water.

Feed flaked from Cobalt, freeze dried and wafers from Akari and Tetra. Frozen food from San Fran Bay is good too. Just a little every other day or so.

Change the water, that's most important.

B

 

[Faelrin]

Figure I should post an update. I got some hornwort and anacharis (2 things of each, there is one clump of anacharis in each front corner and the hornwort is floating in the center). I got three more females (the day before I got the plants), and I acclimated them in to both temperature and water conditions and they seem to be doing fine. My male is having a problem though and I'm getting worried (which I noticed before I got the plants but I was unable to update this then as I was having my computer reformatted). He keeps gasping at the surface, he's lethargic, his gills look really red almost as if they were bleeding, and he's been swimming sort of slanted (head is held up high, tail is hanging low). I went and did a 30% water change yesterday. Should I keep doing the water changes each day until he improves or get him medicine? Or does he need more oxygen? Would that cause any problems for the plants too (more water changes or any oxygen)? I have two air bubblers in my larger goldfish tank nearby that I could easily place in this tank if it would be any help (at least one of them).

 

[Sk3lly]

Have you ever tested water parameters?

I reckon this tank is not cycled and your fish are suffering from either ammonia or nitrite poisoning.

Firstly what size tank is this??

Secondly can you get results for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate using an api liquid test kit?

How old is the tank setup?

Fish gasping at the surface is a sign of nitrite poisoning. It attaches itself to the blood of the fish and stops the blood absorbing O2, hence the gasping look. The red gills is a sign of ammonia burn.

Urgent 50% water changes are needed otherwise you WILL lose fish.

Water testing is very important on newly setup tanks


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[Faelrin]

It's a ten gallon tank. I used the aqadvisor calculator and it said four mollies is fine for this tank.

This was a well cycled tank for years. I used to keep my goldfish in it but I moved them into a 29 gallon. I moved them several weeks before I got my mollies, and now I'm wondering if it had a mini cycle? I had been putting fish flakes into the tank in the period with no fish, in hoping to keep the bacteria colonies alive.

I'll do another large water change today because he's not looking too good and I really don't want to lose him. I also took a picture with my webcam (I don't have a normal camera). It's really blurry, but one can see how he is (the slanted look and gasping at the surface) and the red circles are either his gill covers or his actual gills. I'm not sure.

I have been using the jungle test strips but I'm all out of those now (except the ammonia ones) and I understand those aren't the most accurate. I'm also out of my api aquarium salt, and hopefully can get that today after my therapy appointment. I can try to get an api testing kit, but I can't guarantee it (even though I've been wanting one for a bit now since I heard its much more accurate and lasts far longer then those strips).

Here's the picture:
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o776/Faeller/fishredcirclegills_zps4215da7f.png

Since I had lost internet right after I typed this up, I went and did a water change (near 50%) while I waited for it to come back on.

Edit: So was able to get some more aquarium salt, and get a api liquid test kit. And now I need to get some gloves for that ammonia test. I don't want to take chances with something that's corrosive. But I'll do the other tests and then post the results.

 

[Sk3lly]

It's a ten gallon tank. I used the aqadvisor calculator and it said four mollies is fine for this tank.

This was a well cycled tank for years. I used to keep my goldfish in it but I moved them into a 29 gallon. I moved them several weeks before I got my mollies, and now I'm wondering if it had a mini cycle? I had been putting fish flakes into the tank in the period with no fish, in hoping to keep the bacteria colonies alive.

I'll do another large water change today because he's not looking too good and I really don't want to lose him. I also took a picture with my webcam (I don't have a normal camera). It's really blurry, but one can see how he is (the slanted look and gasping at the surface) and the red circles are either his gill covers or his actual gills. I'm not sure.

I have been using the jungle test strips but I'm all out of those now (except the ammonia ones) and I understand those aren't the most accurate. I'm also out of my api aquarium salt, and hopefully can get that today after my therapy appointment. I can try to get an api testing kit, but I can't guarantee it (even though I've been wanting one for a bit now since I heard its much more accurate and lasts far longer then those strips).

Here's the picture:
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o776/Faeller/fishredcirclegills_zps4215da7f.png

Since I had lost internet right after I typed this up, I went and did a water change (near 50%) while I waited for it to come back on.

Edit: So was able to get some more aquarium salt, and get a api liquid test kit. And now I need to get some gloves for that ammonia test. I don't want to take chances with something that's corrosive. But I'll do the other tests and then post the results.

I really wouldnt worry about gloves, that is overkill.

In my opinion your main problem is mollies in a 10g. End of


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[Coursair]

In spite of using Aqadvisor I do Not recommend Mollies in a 10g. These can hit 2-3" per fish and they have a big bioload. There isn't enough room for the females to get away from the male so they may get harassed to death.

Sorry

I would return them or start doing water changes 2x a week to keep Ammonia down.

These fish would do better in at least a 30g. They are very active swimmers.

Endlers or Guppies or Ballon Mollies maybe or 2 Platies.

10g are tricky to stock properly.

 

[Faelrin]

I'll be doing another water change today. My test results were 7.6 for the ph, 1.0ppm for the ammonia, 0ppm for the nitrites, and 40ppm for the nitrates. The ammonia was the last thing I tested. He's still hanging on though, but I don't know for how much longer.

I got some api general cure but I'm not sure if I should use it or more water changes would help. If I do need to use it, what about the plants? Would I need to remove them or would they be fine in there? And about the carbon filter cartridge (I use tetra bio bags), I read that those generally shouldn't be replaced (unless falling apart) because the bacteria lives on it, but it says to remove it when giving medication, and then it says to put in a new one after. So what would be the safest thing to do there if I need to put the medicine in?

Edit: I'm about to do another water change and I got a closer look at the male. Those red spots look like they are holes in his gill covers. And the one on the right side looks like its growing. So would I be better off putting the medicine in today then?

 

[Coursair]

Water change and if you have Prime use extra. Keep Ammonia as close to zero as possible and nitrates less than 20.

The fish is being poisoned by the bad water.

If you need to medicate you can move plants to a bucket temporarily or set up a bare hospital tank and use some fake plants for cover.

 

[Faelrin]

Should I do a gravel cleaning as well? I don't have prime but I have aqua safe dechlorinater.

 

[Delapool]

I'll be doing another water change today. My test results were 7.6 for the ph, 1.0ppm for the ammonia, 0ppm for the nitrites, and 40ppm for the nitrates. The ammonia was the last thing I tested. He's still hanging on though, but I don't know for how much longer.

I got some api general cure but I'm not sure if I should use it or more water changes would help. If I do need to use it, what about the plants? Would I need to remove them or would they be fine in there? And about the carbon filter cartridge (I use tetra bio bags), I read that those generally shouldn't be replaced (unless falling apart) because the bacteria lives on it, but it says to remove it when giving medication, and then it says to put in a new one after. So what would be the safest thing to do there if I need to put the medicine in?

Edit: I'm about to do another water change and I got a closer look at the male. Those red spots look like they are holes in his gill covers. And the one on the right side looks like its growing. So would I be better off putting the medicine in today then?

As above - skip the meds which may kill off some of your nitrifying bacteria (the metronidazole in the api general cure if I have correct one) and do more water changes (get the ammonia down to 0.25). That way you can also leave the filter bacteria population alone as well. A water conditioner which makes ammonia harmless such as prime will help a lot. Increasing aeration will help get extra 02 into the water for them.

Edit - unless aqua safe dechlorinater says it deals with ammonia (extra ingredients needed), it probably doesn't. API ammo lock is another one that deals with ammonia.

 

[Faelrin]

Yeah it doesn't say anything about ammonia, just dechlorinates and has some slime coat stuff to help the fish de-stress. I always add in at least a teaspoon like it says (one teaspoon for 5 gallons) when I add replacement water for evaporations or when I do a water change. Today was another 40% water change and of course I added it in.

My main concern is about those holes in his gills. Will they heal in time or will they be permanent? Are they caused by the ammonia or nitrates?

 

[BBradbury]

Your Tank

Hello Fae...

Mollies are the most sensitive of the livebearing fish when it comes to water chemistry. You've gotten first hand experience. Livebearers need larger tanks, because they're pretty active swimmers and need a lot of floating plants for comfort and hiding places.

Mollies aren't good fish for beginners, don't know that you are a beginner, but Platys are a much hardier livebearer and would handle most tap water supplies.

I would suggest getting them or Guppies if you want fish that give birth to live young.

B

 

[Faelrin]

I mainly went with them because I need something to survive in my hard and alkaline water. I didn't realize it wasn't too alkaline until I got the api kit last night, because the strips were always saying it was a bit over 8.0 and 300ppm hardness (if not more) . I realize now I would have been better off with something else. The females seem to be doing fine though, its just that poor male. I really want him to make it (especially because of the slight blue color in his tail), but those holes might end up taking their toll on him. I'll keep doing the water changes though and testing it.

 

[Delapool]

Yeah it doesn't say anything about ammonia, just dechlorinates and has some slime coat stuff to help the fish de-stress. I always add in at least a teaspoon like it says (one teaspoon for 5 gallons) when I add replacement water for evaporations or when I do a water change. Today was another 40% water change and of course I added it in.



My main concern is about those holes in his gills. Will they heal in time or will they be permanent? Are they caused by the ammonia or nitrates?

Possible to heal if not too damaged but there may be scarring. Would of been caused by ammonia most likely. I assume your nitrates before water changes were up around the 80ppm which is high but not likely to cause this. I really would suggest something like seachem prime if you can as it will also deal with the nitrite spike just around the corner as your ammonia converting bacteria ramp up (other wise the salt and water changes will do it).

The water changes will also help prevent secondary infection.

 

[Faelrin]

Alright I'll see if I can get some soon then. I'll keep doing the water changes and adding in a bit of the salt in the mean time. I'm testing for ammonia and nitrates right now and will edit in the results. Would it be necessary to test nitrites as well? They were 0ppm last night.

Edit: For ammonia the color was between the 0.25ppm and 0.50ppm marks.

The nitrate test came back as slightly darker then the 0ppm mark, but still too yellow to be around the 5.0ppm mark. Though I do think that's strange since it was 40ppm last night. Unless that 40% percent change I did earlier seriously helped. Could the plants be helping with the levels as well?

 

[Delapool]

Plants will soak up ammonia to nitrate but I'm wondering if your tank had high nitrates before fish were added. And now the water changes are bringing it down a lot as the bacteria are still building back up again. Could this be possible?

 

[Faelrin]

I did do a massive water change before I got the mollies. I was just doing weekly 20% water changes after I got them, and testing with the strips, but those were probably throwing me off with the results and probably led to a build up. I see now that once a week isn't enough and I'll do more often, and keep testing with that api kit. He's still alive, though he's still lethargic, and swimming about in that slanted position still. I'm guessing he'll be like this for a while because of that gill cover and possible gill damage until he can recover unless there's something that can help to heal it.

 

[Delapool]

I can't think of much for healing, mainly water changes to keep the water clean. People have used melafix or stress coat for ammonia burns on the body, I'm not sure how these would go with gill damage. Both are mainly helping to fight off secondary infection rather than aid healing imo.