Newbie Knows Next To Nothing - Cycling Problems

[Tak Vad]

First off, here are the details.

15 Gallon tank, set up January 6th, temperature kept at 75-80, natural stone gravel substrate with a few fake plants and small moss ball. Above gravel filter that came with the tank, so I'm assuming it is appropriate size. Keeps water steady so I know it works. Fuzzy light brown stuff on filter so I thought there should be plenty of bacteria on it. Used to have 10 guppies, now have 5 and two ghost shrimp. Female guppy just had 7 babies and I put them in a separate little tank with an air stone.

My problem is that my tank has not cycled at all because I have ABOVE 8 ammonia and 0 Nitrate and 0 Nitrite. Hard water and a pH of 7.4, no chlora-watever. Over the past two weeks I've gone through an entire bottle of bacteria additive. I change 30% of the water every 2 days. Use ammolock every 4 days after checking water after water change. Ammonia is always above 8 even after changes and before Ammolock. Tap water before conditioner has trace to no ammonia.

Feeding has been reduced to once every 2 days with no left overs. The 5 remaining fish have been the consistent survivors for the past week and a half more. Very swimmy, always eating, and never swim oddly. Water always cloudy despite having the gravel suctioned so I was hoping it was just a beneficial bacterial bloom. Cycle won't start at all.

I keep reading different threads and no one seems to come to a consensus about how much water to change, when to change it, what to add or not add. Suggestions would be great. Nothing the pet store people have advised me to do has worked. Thanks in advance.

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[Yorg]

Hi Tak Vad:

What bacterial additive have you been using?

I'm assuming you have well water, since you wrote that it has neither chlorine nor chloramine in it? What 'conditioner' are using? Or was that a reference to the Ammo Lock?

Can you describe what kind of 'above gravel filter' you have? Is it an external, 'hang-on-back' filter? Or is it inside the tank itself? Is it air-driven or electric powered? What is arrangement of media in the filter?

How are you testing for your ammonia -- test strips or reagent kit? Have you checked the expiration date on the test kit?

-Yorg

First off, here are the details.

15 Gallon tank, set up January 6th, temperature kept at 75-80, natural stone gravel substrate with a few fake plants and small moss ball. Above gravel filter that came with the tank, so I'm assuming it is appropriate size. Keeps water steady so I know it works. Fuzzy light brown stuff on filter so I thought there should be plenty of bacteria on it. Used to have 10 guppies, now have 5 and two ghost shrimp. Female guppy just had 7 babies and I put them in a separate little tank with an air stone.

My problem is that my tank has not cycled at all because I have ABOVE 8 ammonia and 0 Nitrate and 0 Nitrite. Hard water and a pH of 7.4, no chlora-watever. Over the past two weeks I've gone through an entire bottle of bacteria additive. I change 30% of the water every 2 days. Use ammolock every 4 days after checking water after water change. Ammonia is always above 8 even after changes and before Ammolock. Tap water before conditioner has trace to no ammonia.

Feeding has been reduced to once every 2 days with no left overs. The 5 remaining fish have been the consistent survivors for the past week and a half more. Very swimmy, always eating, and never swim oddly. Water always cloudy despite having the gravel suctioned so I was hoping it was just a beneficial bacterial bloom. Cycle won't start at all.

I keep reading different threads and no one seems to come to a consensus about how much water to change, when to change it, what to add or not add. Suggestions would be great. Nothing the pet store people have advised me to do has worked. Thanks in advance.

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[Tak Vad]

Stress Zyme. And I can see how that can be confusing in regards to chloras. The Stress Coat conditioner is great so it takes all the chloras out. I don't have well water and I don't use Ammo Lock as the conditioner.

Hang on the back filter, electric. It's a light spongy type material square with what I assume is gravel or charcoal inside, vertical in the filter.

Had a strip kit, high ammonia. Took it to the store, high ammonia. Got a liquid kit, high ammonia. So expiration accuracy isn't the issue. Thanks for your response.

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[Yorg]

Hi Tak Vad:

Thanks for the additional info. An ammonia of 8ppm will kill any beneficial bacteria you add, so there's probably no point in continuing to use the Stress Zyme at this stage. I'm assuming that you don't have the option of moving the fishes to another tank. I'm going to recommend that you do a series of very large water changes, on the order of about 80%, to see if you can dilute the ammonia down to about 3ppm or thereabouts. If you can reach that level, try adding the product Tetra SafeStart to the tank. It's a different bacterial additive and seems to be one of the most effective ones in starting a fish-in cycle.

Another alternative would be to get an ion-exchange medium such as Seachem Purigen and run that in your filter for a week or so. It pulls ammonia out of the water, and might help you get the ammonia down to a level where you can add the SafeStart without killing off all the beneficial bacteria.

Keep conditioning the water to remove chlorine/chloramine, and keep using the Ammo Lock to protect your fishes from ammonia poisoning (the product Prime will do both of those things, if you want to switch to a single one).

I hope you're able to resolve the problem and get the cycle going.

-Yorg

Stress Zyme. And I can see how that can be confusing in regards to chloras. The Stress Coat conditioner is great so it takes all the chloras out. I don't have well water and I don't use Ammo Lock as the conditioner.

Hang on the back filter, electric. It's a light spongy type material square with what I assume is gravel or charcoal inside, vertical in the filter.

Had a strip kit, high ammonia. Took it to the store, high ammonia. Got a liquid kit, high ammonia. So expiration accuracy isn't the issue. Thanks for your response.

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[Tak Vad]

Thanks. I'll try it all out and get back in about a week or two.

My only concern is that wouldn't adding the Ammo Lock automatically make my ammonia readings positive? Would it be better to not add Ammo Lock and just do the water changes for now so my readings are more accurate?

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[Yorg]

Hi Tak Vad:

As far as I know the Ammo Lock itself won't cause a positive reading. When you use the product the ammonia is still present in the water (in other words, Ammo Lock can't actually remove ammonia from the water the way an ion-exchange resin like Purigen can); it's just that the Ammo Lock converts it into a form that's less toxic to the fish. Even with the water changes, I'd recommend continuing to use the Ammo Lock to protect your fish from ammonia poisoning until you can get your cycle underway.

I hope this works for you!

-Yorg

Thanks. I'll try it all out and get back in about a week or two.

My only concern is that wouldn't adding the Ammo Lock automatically make my ammonia readings positive? Would it be better to not add Ammo Lock and just do the water changes for now so my readings are more accurate?

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[Tak Vad]

That makes sense. Thank you for your continued patience with my questions.

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[Tak Vad]

How do I directly upload photos on here? I would rather not post my photo on another photo site just to post on here.

Tank water cleared up after another water change. But... My ammonia reading is DARK blue. Not even green. Dark blue. After a 50% water change. I tested the tap water and there was little to no ammonia. How is it physically possible for there to be an ammonia reading above 8 when I changed half of the water with little to no ammonia? Theoretically it should automatically cut the ammonia in half! This tank keeping stuff is ridiculous.

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[Yorg]

Hi Tak Vad:

You mentioned in an earlier posting that you'd lost some fish. Are they all accounted for? Is there any chance one is stuck in a decoration, or in the substrate somewhere? A decaying fish corpse could be a source of ammonia, although I don't know if it could raise your overall concentration to 8ppm.

-Yorg

How do I directly upload photos on here? I would rather not post my photo on another photo site just to post on here.

Tank water cleared up after another water change. But... My ammonia reading is DARK blue. Not even green. Dark blue. After a 50% water change. I tested the tap water and there was little to no ammonia. How is it physically possible for there to be an ammonia reading above 8 when I changed half of the water with little to no ammonia? Theoretically it should automatically cut the ammonia in half! This tank keeping stuff is ridiculous.

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[Tak Vad]

Hey Yorg,

Thanks for asking! I wish the explanation were as simple as that. All dead fish and shrimp have been previously accounted for. The gravel has been cleaned well with a siphon and the whole tank has been rearranged and large decorations taken out so that I have a clear view in the tank. Not even a molt goes unnoticed in that tank now.

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[chykityta]

Hi,
I have read in other threads that Ammo Lock actually binds ammonia, making it unavailable for the bacteria to feed on. Please read more on Ammo Lock.

Option 1- Prime and AmQuel+ are the recommended conditioners but don't use them for too long; maybe until the cycle is complete. Use during your PWCs every other day.

Option 2- Do daily 50% PWC with a conditioner that only de-chlorinates your water, like API Tap Water. No Prime or AmQuel+ needed. This is how I am currently cycling my tank with fish in. No fish loss.


Sent by me; a Newbie
10g partially planted with 7 Bloodfin Tetras - Est. 1/29/2015