Newbie question. Fish darting to the top for oxygen?

[Sikth]

Hey, as you can see I am very new here and I have been keeping my own tropical fish for about a month now.

I accquired a 10 Gallon Tank from my Dad and spent around 3 weeks cycling it before putting any fish in.

I have an Interpret IPF Mini Filter and the temperature averages between 72-75. I have Fake plants and Rainbow coloured Gravel as a substrate along with White "Ice Rocks" for added decoration.

To be very honest, I havent checked the PH or Nitrate/Nitrite Levels. I know I should, its just something I have been overlooking. I will get round to that this weekend.

Anyway, I put 5 Neon Tetras and a Cory Bronze in, and after a fortnight they are doing pretty well (only a minor worry about the Cory which I will address in a moment).

So today I decided to get a Red Tailed Black Shark and a Loach.

Now, my only major concern with my tank is that for a while I noticed the Cory was spending a lot of time at the top of the tank. He wasnt poking his head out of the water, just darting from the bottom of the tank to the top, and swimming round the surface.

Then today when I put the Shark and the Loach in, all 3 seemed to be doing it at one point or another. They have settled down now though.

The shark even went and sat on the filter wich is about an inch below the surface of the water.

The Neons however, just do their thing.

Is there something in particular that will make some fish dart to the top of the water? Could my tank be lacking enough oxygen? Is this normal behaviour? Am I worrying about nothing?

Listen, I am sure you guys will know exactly what is wrong or what I have over looked, so I am going to stop babbling on.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[fearlessfisch]

I think corycats will dart to the top of the tank occasionally, as part of their normal behavior. Mine do. I've never seen them hang around up there, though.

 

[ScottS]

For the Corydoras, that's normal behavior to pop to the surface for a gulp of air.

The shark is not going to be happy in the ten. I made the same mistake when I was new. My shark was going up and down for a few days, then one morning, I woke to find him dried up on the floor. They just need more space than a 10 gallon. What kind of loach did you get? If it's not a Kuhli, you may be in trouble there too.

This may not be what you want to hear, but I'd take the shark and loach back for two more Corydoras. They are much happier in groups and more suitable for your tank.

Good luck!

 

[Hypostomus]

Hello there Sikth.

Okay- first of all, you really need to look up your measurements for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. If any Ammonia or Nitrite is detectable (especially Ammonia), you're going to have problems. How did you cycle? Did you use Bio-Spira or Ammonia (it sounds like you didn't) or did you just let it run for three weeks? If the tank is simply running on its own then you are *not* going to be cycled. Cycling involves the culturing of bacteria through the introduction of them and their food (wastes) into the water. They will grow on the surfaces in your aquarium, such as in the filter box.

I don't know what kind of filter you have (I've never heard of it before), but your temperature should not be fluctuating. You need a *steady* temperature- preferably closer to 75 than 72 IMHO.

Next point: neon tetras do not belong in a new tank. They demand high water quality, and in your case they may start showing signs of illness soon. Corydoras such as your bronze cory need groups of at least three, but also should not be forced to go through the cycling process and the Ammonia spikes it involves. However, corys will swim to the top every so often because they have the capacity to "breathe air."

Most loaches also demand a mature tank with good water quality, and many prefer to be in groups of three or more. Many will also get too big for your tank. What kind do you have? Kuhli? Clown? Weather?

The red-tailed black shark is *definitely* out of place. They require some hiding places and a territory to stake out, and they will undoubtedly harass your other fish in such a small environment. These "sharks" get 5" in length.

Please respond *immediately* with your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate levels, and doing a few water changes won't hurt. Make sure you are using a dechlorinator that will rid your source (is it tap water?) water of Chlorine and Chloramine, as well as a few other dangerous substances that will kill your bacteria cultures.

 

[Sikth]

Hello there Sikth.

Okay- first of all, you really need to look up your measurements for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. If any Ammonia or Nitrite is detectable (especially Ammonia), you're going to have problems. How did you cycle? Did you use Bio-Spira or Ammonia (it sounds like you didn't) or did you just let it run for three weeks? If the tank is simply running on its own then you are *not* going to be cycled. Cycling involves the culturing of bacteria through the introduction of them and their food (wastes) into the water. They will grow on the surfaces in your aquarium, such as in the filter box.

I don't know what kind of filter you have (I've never heard of it before), but your temperature should not be fluctuating. You need a *steady* temperature- preferably closer to 75 than 72 IMHO.

Next point: neon tetras do not belong in a new tank. They demand high water quality, and in your case they may start showing signs of illness soon. Corydoras such as your bronze cory need groups of at least three, but also should not be forced to go through the cycling process and the Ammonia spikes it involves. However, corys will swim to the top every so often because they have the capacity to "breathe air."

Most loaches also demand a mature tank with good water quality, and many prefer to be in groups of three or more. Many will also get too big for your tank. What kind do you have? Kuhli? Clown? Weather?

The red-tailed black shark is *definitely* out of place. They require some hiding places and a territory to stake out, and they will undoubtedly harass your other fish in such a small environment. These "sharks" get 5" in length.

Please respond *immediately* with your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate levels, and doing a few water changes won't hurt. Make sure you are using a dechlorinator that will rid your source (is it tap water?) water of Chlorine and Chloramine, as well as a few other dangerous substances that will kill your bacteria cultures.

I will have the measurements done for tomorrow.

The filter I am using was a hand me down from my Dad after he got his new Filter. I left the same Media in the filter.

After filling the tank with tap water, I added "Tetra Fin Watersafe" and simply left it running, and after about a week the water started to get cloudy and then gradually became clearer till about the 2nd week and it was crystal clear. I assumed this meant it had gone through its cycle.

There is a Ornamental Skull with a hole in the back in my tank which the shark has been frequenting as well as hiding up the side of the filter.

I believe its a Half-Banded Loach (Schistura savona), as it just said "Algae Eater" on the tank in the pet shop.........Its a silvery colour with a brownish stripe down the middle....any ideas?

 

[Hypostomus]

Let us know about those measurements. Also, when you added the tap water was the filter running?

As for identifying your loach/"algae eater," try looking at the following images:

http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/pics/sch9B.jpg
^ Schistura sp. (Half-Banded Loach)

http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/pics/Gyr_aym_B.jpg
^ Gyrinocheilus aymonieri (CAE)

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/Fishpics/sae2.jpg
^ Crossocheilos siamensis (SAE)

http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/pics/fsaeb.jpg
^ Garra taeniata or Epalzeorhynchus sp. (False SAE)

There is a specific Epalzeorhynchus, E. kalopterus/siamensis often sold under the moniker "Siamese flying fox" or just "flying fox." However, they also show up in batches of SAEs and CAEs. Here's a picture of one, which is essentially the same thing as the last one above this paragraph: http://www.fishtanksandponds.com/Siamese-Flying-Fox-2.jpg

Sounds like a CAE to me, in which case you should take it back. But have a look at the pics.

 

[Sikth]

Let us know about those measurements. Also, when you added the tap water was the filter running?

As for identifying your loach/"algae eater," try looking at the following images:
http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/pics/Gyr_aym_B.jpg
^ Gyrinocheilus aymonieri (CAE)

Sounds like a CAE to me, in which case you should take it back. But have a look at the pics.

The Filter Pump was running once the tank was full, yes.

Your right, its a CAE. Why should I take it back?

Why would a Khuli Loach be more suited as opposed to a CAE?

 

[Christmasfish]

I will have the measurements done for tomorrow.
The filter I am using was a hand me down from my Dad after he got his new Filter. I left the same Media in the filter.

This was good, borrowed media can quick start your tank

After filling the tank with tap water, I added "Tetra Fin Watersafe" and simply left it running, and after about a week the water started to get cloudy and then gradually became clearer till about the 2nd week and it was crystal clear. I assumed this meant it had gone through its cycle.

This is bad...without fish , the good media you borrowed would die..the coudiness was prolly the signs of it's demise Media need the amounts of ammnia to keep the cycle complete.

There is a Ornamental Skull with a hole in the back in my tank which the shark has been frequenting as well as hiding up the side of the filter.

he'd prolly like a longer thinner shaped hiding spot, which is why he ends up at the filter, but as said..he is too big a customer to occupy that tank.

I believe its a Half-Banded Loach (Schistura savona), as it just said "Algae Eater" on the tank in the pet shop.........Its a silvery colour with a brownish stripe down the middle....any ideas?

half bandeed loaches are not alage eaters...very few loaches are. They kep algaes down by eaying scraps and whatnot. Cories are harder working at that job. Trade your loach for 2 more cories and find small upper level dwellers like 4 small rasboras or red phantom tetras. And then your are way stuffed but can have some color moving around.

 

[TankGirl]

The CAE (assuming that is what it is) is not a terribly good algae eater and they get large and aggressive, and you are overstocked anyway.

You have some good advice above - a 10gal fills up way quicker than most people are satisfied with, and it can be frustrating. The neons and the cory cats would be plenty for a tank that size. The red tail shark needs a lot of room and can get very aggressive, also.

First - test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. This will tell you where you are in the cycle. If you have any measurable ammonia or nitrIte, you need to do frequent partial water changes, maybe a couple of gallons every 2 or 3 days, to keep the levels from killing the fish. These are toxic and in a cycled tank are not present at all. The neons and the cory cats are going to have a hard time surviving the cycle, but I don't believe you can get BioSpira in Scotland, so you will need to make the best of it.

All of this seems harsh and drastic, but it is hard to keep from overstocking a 10gal, and if you do it is almost certain to fail. It is really not very much water at all for many fish, and it is easier for water quality to go bad in a small quantity of water than in a larger. That said, your original plan was sound, with the cories and the neons, but they are relatively sensitive fish to go through a cycle. Post back with your thoughts, and good luck!

 

[Sikth]

OK, first of all, many thanks to you all. All of this information is proving very useful.

Right, so lets get this straight, although I have went a bit askew with my setting up process, providing my water checks out OK, I only have a stock problem and should get rid of the Shark and Loach?

 

[TankGirl]

I only have a stock problem and should get rid of the Shark and Loach?

Right, provided, like you say, you have zero ammonia and zero nitrite, which would be a cycled tank.

 

[Christmasfish]

I have an Interpret IPF Mini Filter and the temperature averages between 72-75. I have Fake plants and Rainbow coloured Gravel as a substrate along with White "Ice Rocks" for added decoration.

Is this UTAH ice....? if so this stuff dissolves and messes your parameters up badly. Or just white gravel?

To be very honest, I havent checked the PH or Nitrate/Nitrite Levels. I know I should, its just something I have been overlooking. I will get round to that this weekend.

have you tested yet?

 

[Sikth]

Hey, its been a while, but I have been so busy with college, gigs and life in general that I havent had time to go online much lately.

Anyways, to update you, I tested my water and everything came up trumps. The water was fine apart from the Nitrate was 0.1 but that has been brought down to 0 in recent weeks.

Sadly, I have had fish drop Left, Right and Center!

First to go was the Cory. Just found him on his back one morning with no warning.

Then I found the guts of a Tetra in my filter grill. I really dont know what happened, but I figure the Shark probably had a good meal.

But then sadly the Shark died. When I got up one morning, the shark was lying just below his usual hiding place behind the heater and he was all white.

Over the past few weeks, Tetras have been dying one by one, normally starting of with some cotton around them, and then fin rot.

Could this be Neon Tetra Disease? And since I only have 1 Tetra left, should I just dispose of it too since it is more than likely going to die as well (providing it is actually NTD).

The Loach however, is doing very well, and I added a Male Betta a couple of weeks ago, and it is doing very well also. I am very proud of the Betta, its just beautiful!

Anyway, any Tetra Advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Menagerie]

Adding fish to a tank with illness is not a good idea.
As for NTD, I'm not sure. Check with these sites for what is causing illness in the fish:
http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist3.htm
http://www.aqualink.com/disease/sdisease.html#ich
http://fish.mongabay.com/diseases.htm
http://www.everythingfishy.com/med_info.html
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/fishdisho.htm
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/health.htm

FYI--(I did not see the answer) Khuli loaches stay small and make great bottom dwellers.

 

[Christmasfish]

Basically.... :?

If you keep on top of the water quality and get the big guys out you can still tank going. you have to keep track religiously these weeks because of the sensetive neons. Keep an eye that they stay colorful, packed together and eating. Your cory will do its cory up and down thing, snuffle through the gravel and rest on its pecs for long periods of time. If you look at it though you'll see its gills move and eyes "blink". watch closely until you have your tests adn can be assureedd that no readings are high or fatal.
And feed them specifically small amounts at time to avoid futher harm to the cycle with debris rotting.

 

[Sikth]

Well, I treated the water with Methelyne Blue before I added my Betta. Since I did that I have only lost 1 Tetra, and it was over night with absolutely no warnings at all.

 

[Menagerie]

Why did you treat the whole tank? Do you have a QT tank for incoming fish?

 

[Sikth]

Why did you treat the whole tank? Do you have a QT tank for incoming fish?

Why wouldnt I treat the whole tank?

And no, I dont have a QT tank. I am student that lives in a small appartment, so I dont have the space or the money to run a QT tank.

 

[Sikth]

Basically.... :?

If you keep on top of the water quality and get the big guys out you can still tank going. you have to keep track religiously these weeks because of the sensetive neons. Keep an eye that they stay colorful, packed together and eating. Your cory will do its cory up and down thing, snuffle through the gravel and rest on its pecs for long periods of time. If you look at it though you'll see its gills move and eyes "blink". watch closely until you have your tests adn can be assureedd that no readings are high or fatal.
And feed them specifically small amounts at time to avoid futher harm to the cycle with debris rotting.

I already said that the Cory and the Shark and most of the Tetras were dead despite the good water.....

 

[Menagerie]

My question is more why did you treat the tank--what are you treating for? Since your water parameters are good, why are you treating the tank--that is what I was asking. Sorry for being unclear.