Newbie questions

[sea95lion]

Hi! I've given my daughter a 10 gallon aquarium for Christmas. She has a fantail goldfish in a one gallon container and I think it needs a larger home! I've been doing a lot of reading but still have some unanswered questions:
Can we successfully mix other types of fish with the goldfish or should we just put other goldfish in the tank? I have found some suggestions for fish that "tolerate" water less than 70 degrees but I want them to thrive not just tolerate the cool water! Some of the suggestions were Gold Barb, Green Barb, Rosy Barb, Bloodfin Tetra, Guppy, Pearl Danio, Zebra Danio, Weather Loach, White Cloud Mountain Minnow. I shy away from the Barbs because I've read that they can be fin nippers and I don't want them going after the goldfish. Agree or disagree? Other suggestions?

Is an air pump needed? Will the return from the filter be enough movement to keep the water aerated?

My mom kept a 29 gallon tank when I was growing up but I don't remember her ever doing more than changing the filter floss and scraping the algae from the glass. I don't remember her ever testing the well water we used! Boy, things sure have changed in thirty years!

 

[Kasakato]

A goldfish needs A LEST 20g each. Some people have keep them in smaller tanks but they need a really big filter. Can you give us some more details on the tank?(filter, heater, water testing?)

 

[sea95lion]

The tank hasn't been set up yet so no water testing has been done. It came with a Whisper 10 filter and we have another the same size so we could use both if neccessary. I wasn't planning to use a heater since the goldfish currently lives in an unheated bowl. That's why I am asking for suggestions for other cold water fish. Do we need to buy a heater and/or an air pump? I am taking my daughter shopping today for the gravel, fake plants, etc. to get the tank set up. We know we can't add the fish right away.

 

[Kasakato]

Can you cycle a coldwater tank? How hot do you keep your house?

 

[sea95lion]

Can you cycle a coldwater tank?

I am confused by all the contradictory stuff I've read about cycling. Especially whether or not fishless cycling works. My plan is to set up the tank and treat my city water with drops to remove the chlorine then let the equipment run for a day or two before adding the goldfish with its gravel from the bowl. I'm hoping the gravel from the bowl will contain the neccessary beneficial bacteria. I don't understand where the bacteria is supposed to come from with fishless cycling. I will be asking at the fish store about buying a water test kit vs having them do the testing. If all goes well we will gradually intoduce more fish. I still don't know whether we will stick to goldfish or try to mix with other cold water fish.

How hot do you keep your house?

The room where we plan to set up the tank is usually about 70-72 degrees.

 

[Kasakato]

Ok I think that a goldfish tank will not need to be cycled if you already have some gravel from a cycled tank. The bacteria to cycle a tank is everwhere, in the air, water, etc.. Just add the gravel and decor, and add water. Then treat the water with the water treatment stuff. Let the filter run for a while and add the goldfish. No other tropical fish should be added because they need a different tempture. Also a goldfish in a 10g tank is really pushing the limits.

 

[jsoong]

If the fish bowl is already cycled, I would agree that if you move everything from the bowl to the 10 gal, you can avoid the spikes of the initial cycle. However, goldfish bowls don't often maintain good water conditions, and it is possible that the cycle is not properly established, in that case you can expect at least a mini cycle in the 10 gal. I would keep an eye on the levels for the next week or so after the move just in case. There should be some bacteria in the bowl in any case, so the cycle in the 10 would be speeded up if you move everything over.

I would not keep any tropicals with the goldy. White clouds would be OK, but be aware that small white clouds become tasty snacks for big fantails! I would get at least an inch size if mixing the 2, esp. in a small tank without a lot of hiding space.

In a ten, that is pretty much your choice with golds. Other supposedly compatible tankmates (like weather loaches, hillstream loaches) gets too big to be housed with a fantail in a ten, plus I have read about aggression issues in cofined space with the mix.

If you haven't got the tank yet, you can consider getting a 20 & house a pair of fantails. That might be the best setup for a small goldie tank.

 

[sea95lion]

Thanks for the replies.
We've just returned from the store where we were told point blank not to put anything else in with our goldfish because "goldfish are dirty and the ammonia levels will kill anything else you put with them." They will test my water free of charge. She said they sell the testing supplies for the people who live too far out or don't want to bother bringing samples in. Also, I did not realize that the goldfish that is only 2 1/2 - 3 inches now will grow to 12 inches! I always thought that the large goldfish were a diferent variety. I know I should have asked at the store but didn't: How long does it take for them to grow to full size? Are we talking months or years? If it is years then I am thinking of buying one more goldfish for the ten gallon tank and worrying about what to do when they outgrow it when that time comes.
I have decided to keep the ten gallon tank for my daughter to put in whatever hideous decorations her little heart desires with her goldfish. I will purchase a 29 - 55 gallon tank for *me* to put tropical fish into. The size depends on how much I can convince my husband to invest in it! LOL
Thanks again for answering my questions.

 

[jsoong]

Well, your lfs is only partly right. It is true that goldies make lots of waste, but if you have the proper setup, you should not see any ammonia or nitrite. Goldfish in bowls often have to endure the high NH3 & NO2, but that is not good for them either!

You really should have your own test kit. If you want to maintain good water quality in a small tank with golds, you pretty much have to test every day or 2, and that's a lot of trips to the lfs!

Size of goldfish depends on breed. Single tail varieties (eg comets) will grow to 12 or 24". Double tails (ie the fantails) will only get to 6-8". How long will it take to get to be full grown? Depends on water temp, feeding, water quality, etc. However, I've had 2 fantails in a 10 gal for over 1.5 years, and have no problems with water quality (I do 25% weekly water changes). They started out at 1" or so, and got to be about 4" after the 1.5 years, by then, they got moved to bigger quarters. Generally, goldies will be full grown in 2-3 years.

ONe other thing about the move. Unless you are doing daily water change in the goldfish bowl, it is likely that the water is high is nitrates, or possibly nitrites. If you just take the fish & put it into your clean 10 gal, it will be a big shock! Even tho the water in the 10 gal is pristine & "perfect", the goldy had been adjusted to "dirty" water with high osmolar load, and just plunking it into fresh water may cause major shock & possibly death.


The trick is to gradually acclimatize it to clean water. I would suggest putting the fish bowl (& fish & water) in a clean 5 gal container. Then put in 1 cup of water (same as in the 10 gal) every 10 minutes or so. Let the fishbowl overflow (that's why the big container!) as you add moer water. I would not put the fish into the 10 until I have diluted out the fishbowl water by 2-3x (ie. added 2-3 gals of "clean" water into the bowl over an hour or 2). The water dilution trick is what many of us use to aclimatize fish from the lfs to different water conditions, and it works well for me.

 

[Jchillin]

My mother in law has an 18" goldfish. The fish was purchased 9 years ago and was 2". I would say the goldy finished growing about 3 years ago. So the avg seems to be about 3" per year.

 

[sea95lion]

Gosh, it hadn't occured to me that I could shock the fish by putting it in water that is too clean! I will try the gradual diluting/mixing of water suggested.

 

[BrianNY]

jsoong gave you some great advice . I'm thinking that's one lucky goldfish to be in your care sea95lion.

I understand your confusion with all of the things you read too. There's alot of half and misinformation given on most subjects today. At times it seems to me that we're on information overload. You get lots of information and wonder how and where it applies to what you want to accomplish. But in this hobby, it comes down to something very simple. An aquarium is a closed ecosystem. The successfull hobbyist understands that the fish are little chemical plants putting pollutants into their own environment. If the system is well balanced, the fish should thrive. If it isn't, the fish poison themselves. The way to keep the system in balance is with a small fish population, proper filtration, and water changes. The more fish, and the larger the fish (combined with the size of the tank), the more effort we have to put in to keeping the system in balance.

HTH

 

[Ginafish]

Ah this brings back memories....I had a goldfish for 7 yrs. Her name was Gina and she was very dear to my heart - hence my nickname. (Yeah I know it's almost impossible to sex goldfish but lemme tell you...this fish had ATTITUDE and I have witnesses to back me up. LMAO!) She broke all the "rules" when it came to fish and their environments. She outgrew 4 tanks! She eventually grew to about 10" long before she passed on. But wholeheartedly agree that goldfish need lots of room and filtration. Keep them separate from tropicals.
As for cycling....yeah! I'm totally overwhelmed!