Newbie with a problem

[cmjentinger]

How many times have you heard that? Ok, so WhiteDevil found me on another forum and told me to come here for my smackdown.

My family had to get rids of cats and dog due to asthma and so we decided to adopt some fish. The LFS talked us into a 55 Gal freshwater with Emperor 400 biowheel and 6 little fish (5 platys and a mollie - hardy they said) to get the cycle done. Because I know nothing, I generally buy what they say to and follow their advice. My LFS specializes in fresh /saltwater aquariums and ponds. The kids in there are awfully young but they work there so...

My water comes from the tap but is conditioned with Amquel and sets about an hour before adding. Everything was going fine until ick came along and LFS gave my Rid-ICk+ to cure it...it did (I thought). Wife and kids got 6 more fish while I was in Mexico and there they were when I got home.

Now I am in full on ammonia battle mode and I've only lost 1 fish. So my timeline goes like this

bought 55 tank and stuff in Feb and set it up.
three days later got 6 little fish
end of two weeks ammonian getting to be a problem so started 10 gal water changes every other day to control it (occasionally added Amquel to tank when ammonia got too high)
Caught ICK and used Rid-Ick to clear it up according to bottle directions
End of one month and I go on a trip to Mex for a week come home to 12 fish ... OMG!
two weeks later (in middle of constant ammonia spikes, water changes, Amquel, etc) I get fin rot
LFS gives me Melafix to clear it up...it does followed directions on bottle
Now I am around 3 months and Ick is back. Started treatment yesterday

Each time meds go in, carbon comes out and it replaced after meds go out. Water changes at 10 gal every two days.

I just got back from Petsmart (not LFS) for Ammo-lock and drop type test kits for ph and ammonia.

Current water conditions



Ick (treating with 88 deg water, Rid-Ick+, and 1/2 tbl salt per 5 gallons)
When I used my strips this morning I got

(API test strip)
Ammonia - Higher than 3.0 but less than 6.0

(Jungle Laboratories 6 in 1 strips)
Nitrate - a bit higher than 0 but less than 20
Nitrite - 0
Hardness - 150
Chlorine - 0
Akalinity - 125
PH - 7.4

API's drop type kit says ammonia is between 2-4
API's PH kit says PH is 7.6

The little guys get enough food for about 20 seconds of war because I'm afriad of the ammonia. My tank has the following residents...

My tank has

1 molly
4 platys
1 guppy
1 pleco
2 neon tetras
1 blackskirt terta
1 fancy terta (orange with black top fin)
1 painted tetra (looks like someone painted it green)

I've managed to keep them alive this long and they are very vigorous (you should see them eat). Everyone looks good and acts good with the exception of the ICK on the 2 neon tetras.

I accept your smackdowns. You help is appreciated. Here you go WhiteDevil...

 

[WhiteDevil]

Heh.

your nitrAte is fine as well as the chlorine and nitrites, ph is fine( mines at an 8.4 as of 15 minutes ago)

I advise getting the API freshwater master test kit( less then 20 bucks at
#1 Big Als Aquarium Supplies. Bargain Prices On Fish Supplies: Fish Tanks, Stands, Decorations, Accessories) , those strips are pretty much worthless, I do believe they are off from 40-60 ppm over the drops( no brainer, 5ml tank water, 7 drops of the juice and shake, wait 5-15 minutes read results, dump and rinse vial in the sink,done)

your alkalinity well the bigger the number the better.

Ive never had ich in my own tanks so I cant help on that, no experience means I keep to myself and learn from others. The guys and gals around here will be very helpful to you but one fish loss isnt bad at all really, I mean none is great but 1 isnt bad at all for a cycle.

Have you called your township to see exactly what is in your water and when you do add you need to let it vent out for atleast 12 hours minimum then add the de-chlorinator to it. I fill my jugs a week prior to the weekely tank cleaning so I know they are very well vented.

 

[cmjentinger]

Oh. OK. I usually wait an hour with the Amquel stirred in it good before dumping in. Of course changing water every two days means I don't have it around too long. I'd need like 400 gallons in my garage Can't do that. My wife would kill me.

I think I can lick the ick. Got rid of it once. It's the cycle part that I am really struggling through. Ammonia is kicking my butt. Should I go ahead and put in the Ammo-Lock just in case? They also gave me Nutrafin Cycle. Is it any good? Should I wait until after the Ick treatments are done before adding?

Water report comes out in a week on the city water. I'll let you know how it reads.

 

[cmjentinger]

I looked up my water quality report for 2009

Turbidity - .19
Copper - .2 ppm
Flouride - 1.2 ppm
Lead - 2.1 ppb
Sodium - 12 ppm
Nitrate - .54 ppm
Trihalomethanes - 62 ppb
Haloacetic Acid - 28 ppb
Chlorine - 3.4 ppm

 

[WhiteDevil]

Im not sure on that since Ive never medicated the tank or used nutrafin products.

 

[HN1]

Oh. OK. I usually wait an hour with the Amquel stirred in it good before dumping in. Of course changing water every two days means I don't have it around too long. I'd need like 400 gallons in my garage Can't do that. My wife would kill me.

I think I can lick the ick. Got rid of it once. It's the cycle part that I am really struggling through. Ammonia is kicking my butt. Should I go ahead and put in the Ammo-Lock just in case? They also gave me Nutrafin Cycle. Is it any good? Should I wait until after the Ick treatments are done before adding?

Water report comes out in a week on the city water. I'll let you know how it reads.

As far as Cycle is concerned, I personally believe that anything claiming to be "bacteria in a bottle" is pretty much bunk. You will need to let the cycle proceed naturally. The only real (proven) way to speed it up would be to get some used filter media, substrate, etc. from a well established system.

I also agree with getting a liquid test kit. Just follow the directions for each test and you'll be fine. Keep up the water changes and you'll get to the fun part of the hobby in no time.

 

[cmjentinger]

I think I'll hold off on the Nutrafin Cycle until AFTER I'm done medicating and added carbon. But should I treat the tank with Ammo-Lock? If I do, how will I know if the ammonia readings on the kit are right? I've just been changing water because I wanted to know the ammonia was right. This part confuses me. If I lock the ammonia, how do I know how much is still in there that is not locked?

btw, drop kit says ammonia right now is 2-4 ppm.

 

[WhiteDevil]

let it run its cycle it will come around.

We had to cycle our 18k gallon tank at work for 3 months before we could add anything of size to it.

Id keep treating for ich, try heat and aquarium salt before medicine though.

 

[cmjentinger]

I have dosed the tank twice through today. If I leave the tank at 88 will that kill the ick? Should I go up to 90?

 

[WhiteDevil]

I think with the salt( used to be under doc wellfish but I think API has it out too) and 88 degrees the ich should go away for good.

 

[cmjentinger]

I have the salt from API. Is 1/2 tbl per 5 gallons enough? The box says 1 tbl but I don't want to hurt the pleco.

 

[WhiteDevil]

It wont hurt him, go as directed, it seriously will not hurt him at all.

He wont hang out near it by instinct but its an incredible addative to FW tanks.

 

[cmjentinger]

Ok, so I'll go for the full dose. Oh, I did the Ammo-lock test. Took a glass of tank water and tested for ammonia still 2-4 ppm. Then put Ammo-Lock in the glass and the test for that was 0 ppm. So, Ammo-Lock going in. I'll let ya know how tomorrow looks.

I went ahead and put the extra salt into the tank as well. Do you think I ought to put the carbon back in and claer the Rid-Ick+ out of there? Will the heat (88 deg) and salt be enough?

 

[severum mama]

Heat and salt is enough. Leave the temp up at 88 and the salt in the tank for 2 weeks after you see the last sign of ich, just to be safe. That should get it all. Salt will need to be added back into the new water when you do water changes. It's better to dissolve it in a cup of water and add the water slowly to the tank, rather than adding the crystals directly to the tank. When you're done treating for ich, just remove the salt through water changes. It isn't necessary for anything other than treating ich.

IMO Cycle is a snake oil product and won't do anything to speed up the cycling process. The best thing you can do is to find some established filter media and add it to the tank. Other than that, large frequent water changes are the way to go.

Good luck!

 

[cmjentinger]

Thanks. This is good advice. I'll quit with the Rid-Ick. Everyone is telling me that wipes out my bacteria. Salt and heat for me.