Noob here, pre-planning a 55 gal. guppy tank... Advice?

[KlcoKN]

I'm hoping for some help so I don't make too many mistakes
I'm going to be getting a 55 gallon tank for breeding guppies, I don't have the tank or anything yet, complete new slate...
I am planning on doing a fishless cycle, will be getting a complete water testing kit (which do you recommend?), I would like to have live low light plants that can deal with slightly salted waters (I'm thinking java moss, marimo "moss" balls, water sprite, some type of pygmy sword, cabomba?).
I do not know which substrate would be better, sand or gravel?
I would like tank mates (ghost shrimp? corys? how many?) and I'm planning on starting out with 3 male guppies and 9 females.
Any advice, tips, recommendations, would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Hholly]

It sounds like you've done a good amount of research. Good for you! I recommend the API Master test kit. Some lowlight plants like anachris, hornwort, anubias, moneywort, and wisteria would be good. But I don't know about with any salt. Hopefully someone with experience will chime in. Sand or gravel is a matter of taste. Some say sand is easier to clean, but you have to make sure it stays out of your filter. Cories and guppies would get along great, but again, don't know about the salt.
Good luck!

 

[KaylNeko]

Salt is a bad idea if you want corys, and if you keep the concentration low enough to not bother the plants, it's too low to do anything but bother your corys. Unless you're setting up a brackish tank, salt really isn't necessary unless treating for disease--it encourages growth of the slime coat to help protect against disease, but it does it by stressing the fish out, thereby making them more prone to the infections you're trying to prevent and making it a pointless exercise. Best to save it for when there's an actual disease outbreak.

 

[blert]

Cories prefer a group of five or more. Shrimp, however many you like.
Shrimp, Cories and plants do not do well with salt. Why do you want to salt the tank anyway. Salt is not for freshwater fish unless it happens to be dinner.

 

[KlcoKN]

Guess I read bad advice lol, I thought guppies liked brackish water. my trip to the only two fish stores with a decent reputation in the area set me straight, they looked at me like i was crazy too
Ok, so no brackish water, but what about aquarium salt? Or is that the same thing?
And my boyfriend bought an api master kit yesterday (he's trying to save a tank of a friend of a friend who's deployed, the water was solid green!) But he's planning on getting a 125-150 gal soon, how long will a kit last on two tanks? Especially since we're both a little ocd about checking things
When I'm starting out a new tank do I still need to quarantine? should I get a 10 or 20 gal or two on craigslist and cycle them at the same time as my tank or can i just fill them using water from changes from the main tank when its set up?
Lol I have so many questions...

 

[blert]

Brackish and freshwater tanks are very different. Different fish and stuff, some FW fish can be switched to brackish but not sure which ones. You also use marine salt (just like a SW tank) not plain aquarium salt. You don't need FW aquarium salt unless your treating an ailment (some will disagree here but most don't use it).

Your test kit should last a good long time. When I have an empty bottle I run to my LFS and he sells me just the bottle(s) I need so I don't have to waste money on buying whole new kits. Check your Mom&Pop LFS and see if they will do this for you too.

Water from your established aquariums won't help in cycling a new tank. There is just not enough bacteria in the water column to make a difference. Your best bet is to use clean fresh water.

 

[KlcoKN]

Ok, no salt at all unless they are sick, got it
And that's a good point about buying individual replacement bottles, makes sense we would run out of some faster since they use more drops to test.
I guess what i don't get about quarantine tanks is you would have to have it set up and cycled before you get a new fish, then you keep it in there for a while (how long?) and if it doesn't look sick, put it in your main tank... but what if it does look sick? if it dies? do you have to sanitize the tank and filter and start cycling from scratch?
Or when you are starting a new tank, after you cycle do you just add your first batch of fish with no quarantine?
If I'm buying multiple fish from the same shop but from different tanks should i quarantine the fish from different tanks separately?

Sorry for all of the (probably silly) questions, I just don't want to doom a bunch of poor little fishies to an early watery grave :/

 

[Hholly]

Whatever kind of filter you have you should be able to add filter media or a cartridge that fits your quarantine tank, so it gets the beneficial bacteria growing on it too. Then when you need it, take it out of your main filter and pop it in your quarantine filter. Voila, instant cycle of quarantine tank.

 

[blert]

You can keep a quarantine tank cycled by dosing ammonia every couple of days.
You could also run a second filter on your main tank, then just plop it on when you need to quarantine. An air driven sponge filter or a small internal filter works great for this if you don't want to hang another on your DT.

I guess you would quarantine for at least a week. If it gets sick or dies then return it to the store.

Most places run a single filter system on all the tanks. I would quarantine them together if all bought from the same store.

 

[KaylNeko]

Guppies can be kept in low salinity brackish water, but it's not necessary at all.

When I started my new tanks, the first fish in were bought and quarantined in tank. I'm not sure I would suggest it--I had ich break out in the big tank. Had it been something like velvet rather than ich, I would have had to dose a 55 gallon instead of my ten gallon QT. With my first tank, the ten gallon, not a problem since it's small. Just a thought.

 

[KlcoKN]

Lol, I just googled guppy tank setup 55 gal and my own forum thread was the fourth result down on the first page...
So if I don't have to quarantine my first batch of fish I think I might wait to get a quarantine tank, just because setup costs are already going to be high.

So, just to make sure I understand, when I do want to add more fish and need a quarantine tank it would work to take a couple of pounds of substrate from my main tank plus a filter chunk and it would be cycled immediately? Then I just add ammonia daily to feed the biologicals till I buy my new fish?
Would it also work to put a couple fish in from my existing tank in for the meantime instead of adding ammonia?

Thank you guys for being so helpful and willing to answer all my questions!
I did finally find a fish store in my area with a decent reputation that was willing to answer a noobs silly questions, but after following around the poor guy like a lost puppy for 45 minutes bombarding him with questions while he was cleaning tanks and feeding fish I figured I had better go or else he's just going to hide next time I come in

 

[KaylNeko]

I would stick with just a chunk of filter media and leave it bare bottom--easier to vacumn up poo and you don't have to worry about keeping it clean or taking it out if you need to deal with disease. If you plan on bringing in several different batches of fish, I would bag enough filter media for the QT tank's filter in a bio-media bag (you can find them at Petsmart cheap) and keep it tucked into the main tank's filter. Take it out when you have fish in the QT tank, put it back once the fish move in providing they never got sick. If they did get sick, I'd bleach it and start over seeding it--just means you'd have to wait a few weeks before getting a new batch.

I would continue adding ammonia until you get the fish for the 55 gallon--moving fish from your existing tank back and forth would stress them out more than necessary.

 

[KlcoKN]

Great news!
I was talking to my parents yesterday and it turns out they have a 10 gal, 55 gal, and a 90 gal in their basement and we can have them! So thats a huge chunk of change we're saving
And I found another 10 gallon at walmart for $12, so we will have all our tanks in a few days, now we just need the stands :$
We already have the filter for his 90 gal, aquaclear 110, and I'm thinking of getting the aquaclear 70 for the 55 gal.
We've decided on Black Diamond 20-40 blasting media for substrate... Will this work well for plants? corys?
Now we just need to decide on filters and heaters for the 2 10 gal. quarantine tanks, and heaters for the 55 and 90 as well... We were looking at the fluval E 300w for the 90gal, not sure yet on the 55. So, any suggestions?

 

[Hholly]

Wow! Good for you! Here's a thread about the pros and cons of the blasting sand.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/black-diamond-blasting-sand-189691.html

 

[KlcoKN]

Thanks for the link. I have been reading a couple of old aquarium advice forums on it, and I'm kind of thinking of holding off on the corys since they are the main ones that seem to have a problem with the black beauty/black diamond.
And I was looking at a bag black sand at petco yesterday and have to ask, has anyone else wondered if the black "sand" they sell for a $ a lb. is just repackaged black beauty? Because I've got to say, the resemblance is striking...
It would be rather ironic if everyone warning about using the coal slag just to err on the safe side, to use the tahitian moon sand instead, if they were one and the same...

Oh and I almost forgot, more good news, found a wrought iron stand for my 55 for $15 on craigslist

 

[KlcoKN]

Ok was just telling someone about my planned setup so they could give me some advice and pointers hopefully, going to copy/paste it here to update so you friendly peeps can help too

Tank- 55 gallon I'm going to be picking up sometime in the next week
Stand- wrought iron, got off craigslist yesterday
Filter- planning on getting the aqua clear 70
Heater- don't know for sure yet, aqeon 200w submersible? advice?
Substrate- planning on Black diamond blasting "sand"
Plants- want java moss, java fern, basically anything I wont kill...
Light/Hood- I've got no freakin clue lol, advice?
Tank mates- want ghost shrimp, was thinking corys (now not so sure)

So, anyone got any ideas on bottom dwellers that will be good with guppies that wont be bothered my some possibly rough sand?

Know of any decent lights/hoods for cheap?
Or any good heaters?
Or aerators?

There's so many decisions!
Lol I'm pretty much tearing my hair out over my fish already and I don't even have any yet!

 

[KaylNeko]

Heater: I have a 200w Aqueon. I had planned to get another one, but this one gets the tank up to 89 all by itself. I like it.

Plants--java fern and moss is good. Also anubias, and maybe one of the floating plants--duckweed is nearly impossible to kill, just thin it out as needed. Hornwort is good (what I have), dwarf water lettuce (what I want *lol*), frogbit, pennywort....

Lighting/hood--I used two glass versa tops and a shop light from Home Depot, actually...2x 4ft 34w T8s. I spent the extra money on one with a good reflector, and it's working great on my 55 gallon with my low light light plants.

You may want to look at another filter if you're going to go more than very lightly stocked. Filters are tested empty, so their gallons per hour slows down with the addition of media. Rule of thumb for hang on back filters is they'll run at between 50 and 60% of the stated GPH, so go for either put in two rated for your tank size, or get one rated for double your tank size.

I don't think an aerator is necessary--if you're worried, keep your water level low enough that the filter causes surface agitation.

Tank mates--dunno. I've read differing opinions on keeping corys with the sand you're using--some say they've done it without problem, some say it tears them up. Ghost shrimp are good, though you may have to replenish them from being munched on at times.

Good luck

 

[KlcoKN]

I was doing some looking around amazon last night, and think I've changed my mind on heaters, found a 300w aquatop for like $17 that's got decent reviews... anybody got their own reviews before I commit and buy it? (I'm looking at the 300w because the tank will be a couple of feet from a window and I don't know if the 200 will hold up with the cold draft?)
We're going today to pick up my tank and substrate, going to start setting up the tank tonight! I will be using an aquaclear110 my bf got for his tank that he doesn't have yet, I'm thinking of just getting the 110 for my tank anyways now...
Will starting the cycle with no heat for the first couple of days mess anything up? The filter I'll be using has been on a running tank of his friends for about 10 days so I'm hoping it will already have some good bacteria and speed up my cycling
Also do you have a brand recommendation fora brand of ammonia? Everything I've looked on has surfactants!

 

[KaylNeko]

Don't know about the aquatop....just an FYI if it makes a difference, I have minimal heat where I live, and the 200w keeps my 55g tank at 75-76 even in 30 degrees.

 

[KlcoKN]

UGH... my bf went to pick up the tank today, got it home and its a mess...

It was my brothers snake cage way back when and the silicone was all messed up and repaired badly and there's no way it will hold water.

If I could just cut away the silicone and redo it I would but there's a 1/4 inch gap on both sides of the glass on the side, I think the whole thing needs to be disassembled and redone and there's no way we would do it right...

I did find a 50 gallon (48x12.5x20) with hood and lights at petsmart online on sale right now for $116 which seems like a good deal but don't have the cash for it currently, plus its instore only so I'm going to have to call each one till I find one that carries it :/

I did get the black diamond today, it does look really sharp but I spent forever washing it and rubbing it between my hands and didn't get any cuts, but I'm still concerned about its safety with corys...

So in all...