ok divin in with Q's

[nyrmel]

ok firstthing first
tank running since early may first fish motherday, seccond set june first

water nitrate was running in the 15 to 20 just droped to ZERO about 2-3 days ago
Nitrite - none detected in last 10 days or so
Ammo-same
GH 70-soft
alk 100
ph ~7

so this last week I lost my 3rd (and last)neon tetra (first 2 died in days) and last night I lost my catfish
my water that was looking pretty clear all along (cloudy for an hour or two after WC then good again) has for the last few days gotten well extra bubbly kinda cloudy (checked it doesnt seem to really have a color) and some of my plants started to die back that where doing well and they appear to have a brownish coating on them.

Things I know happened
one of my fish had fry after coming home from the LFS
my new snails are burrowing (though I clean my gravel during wc which I do about every 48 hours or so)
I have more fish (went from 6-3-8counting snail-6 again+fry and tiny snails)

my light has 2wpg and runs in two 4 hour shifts a day and there is no direct sunlight on tank room itself is generally fairly dark. I added cycle when I started tank but have used last 2 weeks I add florapride to refill water for plants fish are fed trop flakes i mixed with blood worms and algea wafers

soooo any thots???? what is up with my plants and why are they brown coated, and why does my water no longer look clear?


SOOOOOO

 

[neilanh]

I suspect your tank is not cycled, and that the sudden drop in nitrAtes is indicating your either seeing or about to see a spike in either ammonia or nitrItes. What kind of test kit are you using? If you don't have a quality chemical test set, I highly recommend getting the API master freshwater test kit. I suspect this is what's causing what you're seeing as well as potentially what's hurting your fish.

The brown stuff on your plants is normal, it's diatoms. Diatoms are a type of algae that feed on silicates. new tanks, with new silicone seals, are high in silicates. This algae is common, and is often part of what's referred to as new tank syndrome.

 

[RJRofFL]

Hi nyrmel. I started to reply to your situation back in the welcome section and suggested to bring it here, which I see and am glad you did.

I do suspect that your "cycle" somewhere along the line has stalled or stopped, and agree your tank is not indeed cycled.

Regardless, here's help moving forward.

You might recall I had a similar situation back in Dec last year when I had to start over from a mis-guided fishless cycle guidance.

Here is how I was coaxed through it, and I feel confident others will chime in to help you.

1. Using the API liq test kit, monitor the NH3, N1 and NA daily. Try to insure they stay at or below .5 (I don't know what is lethal, but I think .5 will be ok)
2. Do a 10% WC every other day. (more than 10% you will wind up removing some ammonia which the beneficial bacteria need to feed on.)
3. Don't change the filter just let it run as that's where bacteria is going.
4. Once the NH3 and N1 get down to zero, you should still have around 10-20 NA. At that point you can do a big WC (80-90%) and you shuld be OK.

Just remember, you might have to alter the WC (possibly more) if the readings exceed .5 for the safety of the fish.

BTW all my fish survived through this advice, so I'm passing on to you.

Hang in there. Am sure more sound advice will follow.

Take care,

Bob R

 

[nyrmel]

i have both the water test kit and the little strips both are aying the same thing.... I had all 3 of the above in quantitiy at one point and taht is why i have been so careful about WC's to try to keep the Ammo and NI down so my fish would not be overloaded and die off the bat after a week without detecting either of those and my NA hovering at about 15 I added a few more fish now after a few days with new fish (I expected my ammo and ni to rise as I doubled the boiload) I am surprised it did not but instead the NA droppedfirst to 10 then 5 and now 0. next day plants dont look so good I am thinking there has to ba a connection here. I may be wrong but do't plants feed on NA?
As for diatoms I am ok with them as long as they are not going to be hurting my plants of fish there visual effect onthe non living parts of the tank is almost pretty and give the ornamets a age4d look. I have alos heard of them and that they kinda go away all by themselves? I am pretty sure that even though I added some iteams from established areas to start the cycling that the final 0 is strange there is no reason I can find for extra fish to not effect the tank. Well I will wait for more thouhts on the matter




PS lol Bob got here so this would be prior to him I will leave the filter alon then I was doing a 20% I can drop that to 10% what I dont understand is that I am reading 0 for all three (i test several times a day and with multi differnet kits both drippy drops with the master kit and with the dip sticks (I couldnt believe that it was really 0 so I figured over kill is better) That has me more confused than anything else

 

[RJRofFL]

Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way, (and you're seeing it now too), that when doing a "fish-in" cycle that the cycle does not run smoothly or as efficient as "fishless". In fishless we can control the ammonia and bacteria flow. With fish in, the fish vary these factors.
I think point blank the NA sank so quickly because the NH3 and NI was not sufficient to sustain it's growth and it died. (too many red guys with not enough purple & green guys to eat) Yeah, bacteria die too.

Anyway, just like driving in the car with the dog who loves to hang his head out the window we know if we have to brake he'll go flying out. So I close the window a little and drive a little slower. (another of my analogies).

That's what we have to do here. Need to tread the fine line of feeding the bacteria without harming the fish.
Best thing I can think of is to let the daily readings dictate the WC.
I know that plants do feed on NA, but I really don't know what part they play in this scenario.
Just keep on plugging, and remember to add the Prime or whatever dechlorinator you use, as I do know that chlorine will also kill the good bacteria.

Keep in rouch.

Bob

 

[Purrbox]

As far as your plants go. What kinds of plants do you have? Are you adding any fertilizers or relying solely on fish waste to feed the plants.

 

[nyrmel]

I do have a liquid fert (flora pride)i add during wc other than that i am sorta figuring the fish??
as for declor I do add it but we do NOT have clorine in our tap water as they basically boil water from the lake after running thru a drbris filter then send to the tap lol I live where they bottle water and I will say it tests cleaner than many top brands
I will keep plugging away at wc should I waitto do one until i show.... well something in the tests?????
thanks for the info I am heading to bed now see yall in the morning

 

[Purrbox]

The Flora Pride is a basically just providing Potassium and Iron. Not generally a recommended fertilizer. It could work if paired with a good trace fert like Flourish "Comprehensive", Tropica Plant Nutrition, or CSM+B. How much are you dosing after the Water Change and do you know what ppm of Potassium it's adding with each dose?

Still need to know what plants you have in order to be able to figure out why they aren't doing well. You may have selected non aquatics or plants that are too demanding for your setup. If you don't know the names, post pictures and we can try to help ID them. Also how recently did you aquire them? If you've only had them a week or two, then it may just be that they are still adjusting to your aquarium. In my experiance there really isn't much point in a siest period, unless you're trying to extend you viewing time.

 

[nyrmel]

yes I want to be able to see my fish so the light in on in the am and the evening. I can look up the plant names and will post those soon all of them came from fosters and smiith i can pull up myorder to get names I use the amount listed on the bottle depending on how much water I change useing about 1 1/4 times that amount so as to add to the water already there and I mix it throughly. Tap water hgere is so cold that I use a drip line to replace water after a change and i mix it in the bucket then (tap temp is only about 40* here so even a 10% change really drops the temp down from 78)

 

[Purrbox]

How long is the light being left off during the day? While 1-2 hours may not make much difference, more than that might.

 

[nyrmel]

oh lets see lights on at 7 off at 12 on at 4 off at 8 hmm I guess the first is more than 4 hours so i guess it is 5 an 4 oops I am waiting for my timer to arrive and with it will come a red light and a blue light so that ill be able to see them at differing hours in which case i will most likely set it so the red or blue comes on at 7 til say 9 when the floresent can come on then kick that off in the evening and have the blue/red come on. This room is just to dark in morning and at night to see them any other way.

and plants I have had
2 banana (has sent out roots and is ok if away from current)
dwarf baby tears (not doing well)
micro sword 2 clumps (one smaller doing well the other larger is unhappy)
2red rubin (it is putting out leafs but dies back as fast as new sprouts)
2rotala Magenta (dead combo of fact fish found it tasty and die back which may also be fish chewing stems)
4dwarf rush (was rooting but now is cover brown and dieing back)
yesterday i got some back ordered plants
2 water sprite
2 wisteria
1 four leaf clover plant

I do have one other plant that for whatever reason is not listed on my PO but it has several small ferny like leafs coming off a branched stem and it isnt doing well at all I think I am going to lose it the guppy and tetras left it alone but i think the mollies found it tasty some of the stems are bare

 

[Purrbox]

2 Banana Plant - Medium Light
Dwarf Baby Tears (Hemianthus Callitrichoides) - Medium Light but needs good carbon (Flourish Excel or CO2) and nutrient dosing
Microsword - Medium High Light
Red Rubin - Medium High Light (it is putting out leafs but dies back as fast as new sprouts)
Rotala Magenta (Rotala Macrandra) - Very High Light
Dwarf Rush - White Striping on this plant is a good indicator that it's probably not a true aquatic, therefore unlikely to do well long term completely submerged
Water Sprite - Medium Low Light (great plant for your lighting)
Wisteria - Medium Light
Four Leaf Clover - Medium Light

With your current lighting your aquarium probably is about medium light BUT with the four hours off, it may be further reducing your effective light levels. So anything that requires more than medium light probably won't make it, and the medium light plants may struggle.

To get plants to grow well in your current setup, I'd suggest selecting less demanding plants. Low to Medium Low Light plants will be a better match. Checkout PlantGeek.net for ideas. Once you are able to get the timer going and have one continuous photo period, you'll probably have better luck with the Medium Light plants.

 

[nyrmel]

thanks
Ill keep the light on during the day, what else can i do about the plants not getting light? am I useing the wrong kind of bulb or is it a matter of not enough hours???
I dont intend to replace the plants that the fish enjoyed eating so much as I think that is asking for trouble (more randome plant peices floating in tank)

 

[Purrbox]

As long as you have a bulb that's between 5000K-10,000K it should be perfectly fine. Do keep in mind that over time the spectrum will shift, so it is necessary to replace the bulb before it burns out. This is usually somewhere between 9-12 months. Either way I think a 4 hour break in your lighting is likely to decrease the effectiveness of the light for your plants. In general you want to have your lights on for 8-12 hours each day on a set schedule. A longer light period if you're growing plants out or a shorter light period if you're just maintaining the scape or dealing with algae issue.

 

[nyrmel]

ok ill start leaving it on during the day to see what happens. I had someoe tell me that the 10-12 hours a day was asking for trouble (what i did in the begining) but when i started ctting the lights was a bit before i was having dieback not related to fish nibbling so it is a fair point. Any idea how long i can expect the diatoms to last? this was not a brand spankin new tank persay it housed hermit crabs for about 3 years until a vacation and power issues did them in. (about 2 years ago)
Thanks for all the help

ps timer and night veiw lights should arrive any day

 

[Purrbox]

Diatoms generally last just the first 1-2 months that an aquarium is setup. They go away once all the silicates are consumed. If you happen to be adding more silicates with water changes or food for instance, then it could take significantly longer.

 

[nyrmel]

ok 2 months i can deal with already been running a month so they should be gone by end of summerish? that woorks