pH?

[librarygirl]

The thing with baking soda is that it can fluctuate PH wildly and you need to keep adding it. Crushed coral is an easier option and doesn't cause dramatic swings like using baking soda would. My GH is 3 and my KH is 2 and my tank''s PH is 7.2. I keep a small amount of crushed coral in a media bag in my filter. Every few months (when I remember) I change it out for fresh coral. It helps keep the PH stable due to the softness of the water (particularly when I add driftwood) and I don't need to rely on other things that could cause dramatic fluctuations.

For the pre-filter (they do get nasty) you can just take it out during a water change and swish it around in old tank water to get the debris off. I did that for a while on mine but it got too gross for me after a while, so now I just use netting (I bought a fish net, cut the net off and tied it around the intake with a black plastic strip tie that came with something I bought for the tank, not sure what lol). Debris still gets stuck to it of course and it needs to be cleaned off but it's not as gunky as the pre-filter.

Wash the sponge in old tank water, I don't think it'll harm much. Once a month I clean all of my media this way and never had problems (my tank is pretty established though but I wouldn't think swishing a sponge in old tank water would cause much of an issue).

 

[phin]

The thing with baking soda is that it can fluctuate PH wildly and you need to keep adding it.

This isn't true. Baking soda will raise your KH. Explain to me what happens to the bicarbonates that causes the KH to dissipate after it is added to the tank. I use RO water in my planted tank. I add baking soda with new water during water changes only and keep my KH at 3. I never have to add baking soda any other time. With peat in my filter I keep my pH at 6.6-6.8.

There is no way I would keep a bag of crushed coral in my filter if I wanted to keep a slightly acidic pH.

 

[BillD]

The good news here is that with the low pH, ammonia is not a problem. The ammonia will be in the form of ammonium which is non toxic. Raising the pH while the ammonium is still present will, once the pH passes 7, turn the ammonium to toxic ammonia.
As far as crushed coral goes, it is unlikely to help with hardness unless you do have soft acidic water. If you rely on crushed coral to alter the hardness of your water, every time you do a water change with soft water, you alter the parameters of the water. If there is enough of a difference, you risk damaging/killing fish by osmotic shock. As well, baking soda is used as a buffer in swimmimg pools, to maintain an alkaline pH, and avoid any pH swings.

 

[stepho725]

Okay so why after the dose did my PH raise so high?
Also - the hardness went up to a 100 and the alkalinity is low but again that's nothing new....but shouldn't it be higher now?

 

[phin]

Okay so why after the dose did my PH raise so high?
Also - the hardness went up to a 100 and the alkalinity is low but again that's nothing new....but shouldn't it be higher now?

Hardness went up "to a 100"? so the GH is 100ppm? 5-6 degrees?

Your KH was only slightly raised. The small amount of bicarbonate salts was enough to buffer the small amount of organic acids and cations actually present in the water. If you have no alkaline buffering capacity (0 KH) it only takes a small amount of acid to lower the pH to 6.0. By slightly increasing your KH to ~2 degrees you effectively buffered all the available + ions in the water and added slightly more - ions, resulting in a slightly basic pH of 7.3.

See Librarygirl's post above, you achieved the same thing as her, but with baking soda instead of crushed coral:

My GH is 3 and my KH is 2 and my tank''s PH is 7.2.

The thing is, you need to have a minimal level of alkalinity in order to have a stable tank. Not only that, but in order to maintain a slightly acidic pH you need to have a source of acid in the water. Theoretically, if you were not to change your water, your tank would, over time, build up acids with the breakdown of organic waste and lower the pH in your tank as your available buffering capacity (which is low in your tank) is "used up." Of course, you need to do water changes, so this is not a viable option. The most effective way of maintaining a slightly acidic pH is by CO2 injection or by the addition of peat moss through the filtration process. Driftwood is another option, but is only temporary. Peatmoss is temporary too, but it can be more readily replaced.

 

[stepho725]

I had a piece of Mopani in my tank but just took it out about a week ago because I figured it would raise the PH some. Plus the tannins was driving me nuts!
Just did my 50% change and vacuum...I wish my tank always looked this good! Only put in 1/2 tsp of baking soda with it.
Before my water change, I still had about a 7.3 PH
Obviously I will continue to test for a couple of days to see what happens to it. And I will be dosing as needed.
So should I add more Epsom salt if my alkalinity remains low? And if my water remains very soft?
Thanks for the chemistry lesson thus far!

 

[phin]

I had a piece of Mopani in my tank but just took it out about a week ago because I figured it would raise the PH some. Plus the tannins was driving me nuts!
Just did my 50% change and vacuum...I wish my tank always looked this good! Only put in 1/2 tsp of baking soda with it.
Before my water change, I still had about a 7.3 PH
Obviously I will continue to test for a couple of days to see what happens to it. And I will be dosing as needed.
So should I add more Epsom salt if my alkalinity remains low? And if my water remains very soft?
Thanks for the chemistry lesson thus far!

The mopani will lower your pH. But if the tannins are driving you nuts then you have to decide if you can get used to it or find another way.

Epsom salt (MgSO4) will not effect your alkalinity, it will raise the GH of your tank. If you are going for a soft water, low alkalinity, low pH tank you don't need very much MgSO4, just enough to increase the GH of your tank equal to or slightly greater than your KH.

Best bet is to get a KH & GH test kit. Check in the saltwater section of your LFS or find a store that specializes in corals and marine fish. They will have a KH test kit.

If you are having a hard time supressing your pH and you don't want to add the mopani, try increasing the bioload of your tank and see if you have any pH changes.

-------

As of last night, my tank had: KH=2, GH=8, pH=6.5. The top tray of my canister is packed tight with peat moss forcing all water through the canister through 3 inches of compressed peat. Water is tinged slightly tea colored, but it doesn't bother me. Over time I plan on bringing the GH down to about 5 through RO water changes. You can maintain a low pH, but you need to find a constant acid source. Adding pH down each day is not advised, you need to find an organic source.

 

[stepho725]

Okay I think there is confusion on what I wanted to do here. I just wanted to raise my PH a little because someone said it would help with the nitrates and ammonia levels I was getting.
So initially I had very soft and acidic water with little to no buffering.
Then I added the baking soda and Epsom salt and now I have a 120 GH and alkalinity is still quite low but PH raised to a 7.5ish (its a light blue)
Soooo my ammonia is down to a .25 again but now my PH is up and the ammonia is becoming toxic, correct?
My nitrates were a 20 and I had the first level of nitrites showing.
Did a big water change and added baking soda and Epsom salt and will get back to you tonight with the 24 hrs later results.

 

[phin]

Okay I think there is confusion on what I wanted to do here. I just wanted to raise my PH a little because someone said it would help with the nitrates and ammonia levels I was getting.
So initially I had very soft and acidic water with little to no buffering.
Then I added the baking soda and Epsom salt and now I have a 120 GH and alkalinity is still quite low but PH raised to a 7.5ish (its a light blue)
Soooo my ammonia is down to a .25 again but now my PH is up and the ammonia is becoming toxic, correct?
My nitrates were a 20 and I had the first level of nitrites showing.
Did a big water change and added baking soda and Epsom salt and will get back to you tonight with the 24 hrs later results.

i guess I confused your original post with another. If you aren't trying to target a low pH, but just want a stable pH then just keep a decent KH. Your GH is good (~7 degrees) your KH is up a bit, but brought your pH up since there is very little acid source in your tank. It sounds like all is good.

Since you have fish in your tank currently, you need to detoxify the ammonia, so keep checking your ammonia levels and dose with prime or amquel+ or another water conditioner that detoxifies ammonia. Prime detoxifies 1ppm of ammonia for 24hrs with a standard dose. Dose with prime and do waterchanges when your ammonia levels are over 1ppm.

 

[stepho725]

Well I always dose with prime on water changes but you are saying it only works for a day?
I guess I need to get more. Basically since I've started this tank I've not had a 0 ammonia reading! It goes down to a .25 but never above a 1 thank God.
So I don't need to dose daily with Prime until its above a 1?

 

[Mrs.h2012]

Well I always dose with prime on water changes but you are saying it only works for a day?
I guess I need to get more. Basically since I've started this tank I've not had a 0 ammonia reading! It goes down to a .25 but never above a 1 thank God.
So I don't need to dose daily with Prime until its above a 1?

Prime only temporarily neutralizes ammonia, I think only about 24 hours after adding it to the tank. You only dose prime when doing water
Changes, be only reason to dose prime daily is if your doing multiple water changes.

 

[jetajockey]

Okay I think there is confusion on what I wanted to do here. I just wanted to raise my PH a little because someone said it would help with the nitrates and ammonia levels I was getting.
So initially I had very soft and acidic water with little to no buffering.
Then I added the baking soda and Epsom salt and now I have a 120 GH and alkalinity is still quite low but PH raised to a 7.5ish (its a light blue)
Soooo my ammonia is down to a .25 again but now my PH is up and the ammonia is becoming toxic, correct?
My nitrates were a 20 and I had the first level of nitrites showing.
Did a big water change and added baking soda and Epsom salt and will get back to you tonight with the 24 hrs later results.

There's a toxicity chart around here somewhere. If you are going to regularly dose Mg for GH, I suggest dosing Ca instead as it is more essential for thr creatures in the tank. Crushed coral or aragonite can buffer the gh/kh just fine, hence why it's used regularly in hard water rift lake tanks.

 

[stepho725]

There's a toxicity chart around here somewhere. If you are going to regularly dose Mg for GH, I suggest dosing Ca instead as it is more essential for thr creatures in the tank. Crushed coral or aragonite can buffer the gh/kh just fine, hence why it's used regularly in hard water rift lake tanks.

Okay I'm confused...
What is Mg and Ca?

 

[jetajockey]

Sorry about that, Mg is magnesium and Ca is calcium. Epsom salt is Mgso4.

Both will add to GH. Crushed coral/aragonite (CaCo3) adds both to GH and KH as it breaks down in the tank so if only a small amount of KH buffering is needed this is an easier route than adding baking soda, which is why most people recommend it as a course of action when someone is having GH/KH issues.

 

[stepho725]

Okay I see. I will get some crushed coral next week then.
Tonight PH is a bit darker ...7.8 maybe?
The GH is 120ish. Alkalinity is somewhere around 70ish.
The nitrites were 0 ammonia is much closer to 0 maybe a .15? And nitrates are 15ish
I hate to feed them knowing how dirty it makes the tank lol.
By the way - love your bird!! Is it a parrotlet?

 

[bkiggy]

I use Seachem AquaVitro Carbonate to raise KH and stabilize PH.

 

[phin]

Okay I see. I will get some crushed coral next week then.
Tonight PH is a bit darker ...7.8 maybe?
The GH is 120ish. Alkalinity is somewhere around 70ish.
The nitrites were 0 ammonia is much closer to 0 maybe a .15? And nitrates are 15ish
I hate to feed them knowing how dirty it makes the tank lol.
By the way - love your bird!! Is it a parrotlet?

It looks like you have it all worked out.

 

[stepho725]

It looks like you have it all worked out.

Um maybe...lol
I don't want my PH to stay that high but I am going to see where it goes over the next few days. Also would like my alkalinity a bit higher and I do plan on getting the liquid tests for the GH & Alkalinity because I do not 100% trust the strips.
Thanks for all your input & help!
I think for now I will be okay!

 

[stepho725]

Okay so today my PH is down to a 6.8ish...maybe a 7.
Now my tank looks like its got dust in it again!
It used to look like this and then cleared up and now its back again. What is this dusty/chalky looking stuff in the water? Any ideas?