Planning for a Black Moor tank, lil' help?

[Deedee]

Hi everyone!

So, basically I'm planning on setting up a tank for a black moor and I have no idea what I'm doing, hooray for me!
I've always adored these fish ever since I saw one in the horribly overstocked goldfish tank at my doctor's office.
I grew up with 2 green tree frogs, but I did however get to watch my friend go through goldfish, after goldfish, after goldfish, after goldfish; she would constantly reassure me that "little fish don't live very long anyway". The goldfish didn't stand a chance, competing for attention against a fluffy ball of Chihuahua x Pomeranian cuteness.

Tl;dr: I want to get this right, I'd be devastated if I were responsible for killing one of these fish.

So...compatible tank mates? I know they say you should only keep fancy goldfish with fancy goldfish, but what about Balloon Mollies?
Will the Mollies starve the Black Moor of food?
Would the Black Moor snack on the Molly once it got bigger?
Would the Molly suffocate in the Black Moor's waste?
Or could it potentially work?

I've had a look into various fish individually, and it "appears" to me anyway that water temperature/hardness/PH etc are given in scales from "this number-that number", would finding an average between the 2 fish be appropriate?
For example let's just say black moors need 5-27 degrees and mollies need 22-26 degrees, would having a temperature of say 23 degrees work? So that...you know, both fish are relatively happen. Just using these 2 fish as examples...
I don't know if that made sense.

I'm thinking of getting a 130 litre tank (approx 30 UK gallons).
Also is this a big enough tank for a Black Moor? Will it still be enough space with the addition of gravel, plants, and potentially another fish?

I'm worried, concerned, also excited at the prospect of getting a fish, but mainly worried. D:

 

[Mark Hewitt]

So...compatible tank mates?

The advise is that fancy goldfish are only compatible with other fancy goldfish. So I wouldn't try anything else tbh.

I'm thinking of getting a 130 litre tank (approx 30 UK gallons).
Also is this a big enough tank for a Black Moor? Will it still be enough space with the addition of gravel, plants, and potentially another fish?

Remember on this site quotes are usually in US gallons or litres, so approx 35 US gallons. And yes, that would be big enough. Recommeded minimums for fancies are 20 US gallons for the first fish and 10 for each subsequent one. So you could keep 2-3 in that tank. More if you don't want them to live quite as long.

I'm worried, concerned, also excited at the prospect of getting a fish, but mainly worried. D:

What stage are you at? Have you read up on fishless cycling? Also as I recall Black Moors like to dig, so get a substrate that isn't going to harm the fish, sand or small stoned gravel.

PS. I had planned to get a Black Moor myself, I was all keyed up to get one on the following Saturday and I'd even decided what to call him. But the fancy goldfish I had died, so I threw that tank away and went with tropical fish instead!

 

[dkpate]

Here is a good site with good info.

Black Moor Goldfish

Just click on the links on the left side to see more.

 

[Deedee]

Thank you so much Mark and Dk!

Fancies, with fancies; check.
I went to the Aquarium store today and I'm thinking of going with an Oranda (looks like something out of "The Hills Have Eyes", awesome) and a Black Moor.
Ha-ha! Well, I do kinda want them to live long and prosperous lives.

I'm at stage nought.
I don't want to buy any fish let alone a tank until I (sought of) know what I'm doing. I've read up on the nitrogen cycle, and black moors penchant for digging and eye poking-falling outedness (I hope that never happens, I'd freak out D: ).
I'm going to be buying the tank and other gear tomorrow...oh and that reminds me, could anyone recommend a maid for goldfish?
Or is that a horribly bad idea?
I heard that apple snails and ghost shrimp make good cleaners but apple snails are like the whales of the mollusk world, and ghost shrimp look so teeny tiny.

D'aw, I hate it when that happens. I try not to hype myself up too much...but I must admit I've thought up names and everything too, I seriously hope that doesn't jinx it. I'm too emotionally invested at this stage. D:

 

[Mark Hewitt]

could anyone recommend a maid for goldfish?

Yes, you! Get cleaning

As for buying the tank, the best advise at this stage is to buy as big as you can afford. The bigger the tank, the easier things will be and it'll be much more forgiving when you make mistakes - which you will!

 

[Deedee]

Yes, you! Get cleaning

As for buying the tank, the best advise at this stage is to buy as big as you can afford. The bigger the tank, the easier things will be and it'll be much more forgiving when you make mistakes - which you will!

Hur-hur, of course.
I'm a master water changerupperer, got my siphon and everything.
I'll be like "SIPAHHH!", and those goldfish will be all "whoa, where'd all ma poop go".

Trust me, I'll be making A LOT of mistakes, and you'll probably get to hear all about them you lucky thing you.
You can prolly expect like a million more threads from me...sorry in advance everyone!

 

[BigJim]

No critter will get rid of the fish waste. You'll need to vacuum that out.

Better to ask questions than learn from mistakes. Ask away.

 

[yenner]

"SIPAHHH!", and those goldfish will be all "whoa, where'd all ma poop go".

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Based on this comment alone I can tell we'd get along great.

Anyways, I have 2 goldfish with a Pleco and a Fiddler crab. They do a GREAT job of cleaning up but, as said before, won't get EVERYTHING. With a couple of sick puppies that will eat ANYTHING and a vacuum you'll be set.

Keep in mind if you get a fiddler they need a little salt in the water (brackish) and a way to get out and grab some air.

Hope this helps.

 

[Deedee]

No critter will get rid of the fish waste. You'll need to vacuum that out.

Better to ask questions than learn from mistakes. Ask away.

With the vacuuming...you wouldn't do that with the fish in the tank 'cause that would severely freak them out, right?
So what do you do with the fish, do you take them out and put them in...
a) a container
b) another tank
c) somewhere with old tank water so the temp/ph/etc doesn't change too much
or d) all of the above

And how do you get them out, wouldn't a net damage their squishy little bodies? What about a cup, or possibly mug?

Also about the water...
When we had frogs we used "Aquarium Science: Chlorine Neutraliser (water ager)", it does get rid of chlorine and chloramines but I read that sometimes "Chlorine Neutralisers" can cause ammonia levels to go whoosh and this particular brand says nothing about neutralising ammonia. I don't want to use this stuff unless I know it's relatively safe, any suggestions?

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Based on this comment alone I can tell we'd get along great.

Anyways, I have 2 goldfish with a Pleco and a Fiddler crab. They do a GREAT job of cleaning up but, as said before, won't get EVERYTHING. With a couple of sick puppies that will eat ANYTHING and a vacuum you'll be set.

Keep in mind if you get a fiddler they need a little salt in the water (brackish) and a way to get out and grab some air.

Hope this helps.

I just hope I don't mega siphon the water into my mouth again. That would be a sucky start to fish keeping.

Pleco's are infinitely cute. I love how they nom on the tank and you can see their funny bellies, who knew algae removal could be so humorous!
I was thinking of getting a Bristlenose Pleco since they tend to be smaller but I've conceded that don't have enough space. D:

You have a fiddler crab? That is so cool!
Aren't you paranoid it'll scuttle out one day and get you with it's EPIC CLAW OF DOOM!

 

[dkpate]

You don't ever need to take the fish out while vacuuming or during partial water changes. Most of my fish think the vacuum is the most fantastic and interesting thing ever.

I would get Seachem's Prime as the water dechlorinator, which is what most people on here use I, believe.

 

[jsoong]

Welcome to the world of goldfish fanciers!!

Moors are great starter goldfish, they are hardy and easy to care for.

Few comments:
1. Get as big a tank as you can - bigger means easier maintenance, and you can have more fish! At any rate, your 130 l should be good for 2-3 fancy goldfish.
2. Get a good filter - a small canister is best in your size tank. Be skeptical of the tank size claim on the filter. They are usu. overly optimistic, and goldfish need higher filtration than the usual tropical fish. So get a canister that is rated for 50 gal or so to be safe.
3. Water change is your friend. And my goldies loves to play around my hand & the vacuum when I clean. So, no, they don't get freaked out. <Goldies loves interactions, you can train them to come up for food, they will eat off your hand, and you can even train them to do tricks.>
4. You can consider some tank mates other than goldfish - but mollies are not it. <Wrong food needs, competition issues ...> A pleco is OK only if it is the dwarf variety. <bristle nose or rubberlips are only 2 know to be goldies safe.> Note that the pleco is also a high waste producer, and you will need to decrease your goldies population to accommodate him. Other choices: apple snails or other snails, white cloud minnows, hillstream or weather loach (with the right setup). <Oh and shrimps are compatible, except that goldies loves to eat them as snacks.> If you are staying with the smallish tank, sticking with all goldies would be simplest.
5. Make sure you cycle the tank before adding fish. Although the moor will prob survive cycling with good enough care, the stress will shorten its life. <So fishless is better.> Orandas are most sensitive to bad water of all the common fancies, so should not be added until your tank is well established.
6. Fancies like to be in warmer water than commons - around 20-22ish. Moors are hardy enough to live outside & will do OK down to the teens, but orandas tend to get into gut problems with cold water. So if you live in colder area, a heater is a good investment. <Is there cold areas in Oz?>

Have fun setting up your tank! If you have any more questions, ask away!

 

[Mark Hewitt]

With the vacuuming...you wouldn't do that with the fish in the tank 'cause that would severely freak them out, right?
So what do you do with the fish, do you take them out and put them in...
a) a container
b) another tank
c) somewhere with old tank water so the temp/ph/etc doesn't change too much
or d) all of the above

And how do you get them out, wouldn't a net damage their squishy little bodies? What about a cup, or possibly mug?

No. Vacuuming will stress them a little, but not too much. Depending on the type of fish. e.g. My tetra's hide when I do it. By my molly *loves* it!

Getting fish out of the tank is often mega difficult and you are likely to severely stress them out and handling them is likely to injure them. During routine fishkeeping you should never need to remove the fish from the tank. Unless you are doing something major like changing the gravel or moving the tank or changing tanks!

Also about the water...
When we had frogs we used "Aquarium Science: Chlorine Neutraliser (water ager)", it does get rid of chlorine and chloramines but I read that sometimes "Chlorine Neutralisers" can cause ammonia levels to go whoosh and this particular brand says nothing about neutralising ammonia. I don't want to use this stuff unless I know it's relatively safe, any suggestions?

Any water treatment product you get from the LFS store will be fine. Most people on here will not recommend using an ammonia neutraliser except in emergency. Your filter is there to take care of the ammonia. I've never heard about water treatments causing ammonia problems, and I can't figure how that could be even possible..

I just hope I don't mega siphon the water into my mouth again. That would be a sucky start to fish keeping.

Yeah, it's not nice

You have a fiddler crab? That is so cool!
Aren't you paranoid it'll scuttle out one day and get you with it's EPIC CLAW OF DOOM!

I hear they'll eat your eyes while you sleep! Best keep that tank lid locked down

 

[dkpate]

How can the filter possibly take care of the ammonia if the carbon only lasts 2 weeks? I hope you meant biological filter.
Most people on here use Prime, which is also an ammonia/nitrite neutralizer/buffer.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

How can the filter possibly take care of the ammonia if the carbon only lasts 2 weeks? I hope you meant biological filter.

When people say filter, that's what they mean. The carbon in the filter is a bit of an optional extra and isn't really relevant to anything :?

 

[dkpate]

Well, when people say filter, they think of the filter that you put in the tank, not the biological...
And the carbon is mostly there and used to remove meds, so it does have a purpose.

 

[yenner]

I just hope I don't mega siphon the water into my mouth again. That would be a sucky start to fish keeping.

Why would you get water in your mouth? You don't suck on the end of the hose to get the flow going do ya?! I figured out on my first vacuum how to get it going without getting my mouth anywhere near that nastiness! I'm sure a google search can find the directions. I actually had a vacuum given to me with the tank but while looking at one in our LFS saw instructions on how to get the water flowing without having to use my lungs, then went home and applied it with mine.

Nasty....

Pleco's are infinitely cute. I love how they nom on the tank and you can see their funny bellies, who knew algae removal could be so humorous!
I was thinking of getting a Bristlenose Pleco since they tend to be smaller but I've conceded that don't have enough space. D:

I love mine. I just bought a small pleco from Wally World and he's doing great!

You have a fiddler crab? That is so cool!
Aren't you paranoid it'll scuttle out one day and get you with it's EPIC CLAW OF DOOM!

Nope. With my setup she cant, or at least hasn't been able to, escape. I really need to get it finished and get pics up.

 

[Deedee]

Thanks again Mark and DK!
It's good to know that fish are more courageous than me. I'd been stressing over whether I'd have to take them out each week to clean. :s
Seachem's Prime? I'll have to check whether they stock that (or atleast something similar). D:

Thank you so much Jsoong!
I got one of those submersible heaters that are like a bar. Australian weather is pretty fickle; summer can be 37-40 celcius plus and stay that way for weeks on end with no reprise at night. But in winter it can get to 12 or lower...especially in our house which gets cold and stays cold or vice versa with the heat.
I got a canister filter...now it's just a matter of trying to make it look subtle. Ha!

Why would you get water in your mouth? You don't suck on the end of the hose to get the flow going do ya?!

Hells ya! Our siphon is a manual. SLURPY-SLURPY!
But now if I learn how to do it without my mouth those prior skills of mastery will be usurped! :c
It's only a matter of time Yenner, Crabs are pretty crafty.


Thank you so much everyone for all your support and advice!
You've all helped to give my confidence an immense boost.
I'll (hopefully) finish setting up the equipment today and start cycling the tank tomorrow. *crosses fingers*
Wish me luck!