Quick cycle?

[eco23]

My apologies if you find it borderline offensive. You said, "I've never personally used a soil substrate, but I was informed by Fort (Mod), that eco complete does in fact leech ammo.", this statement to me reads that you don't have any personal experience with it and you are basing your facts on what someone told you about it. You didn't mention any other sources at all, so yes, I consider that parroting, but still not intending any offense.

You post in nearly every thread in regard to cycling, so it's hard not to see your posts. You have tons of posts that I don't respond to at all, or I even concur with you, so don't be upset when I call out anything I consider inaccurate. And in all fairness, in an open forum like this, you should expect to have others keep your information in check. I expect others to do the same to my posts, also.

Yep, that's my purpose of posting when I see something that I consider inaccurate or misleading. It may very well be completely accurate, I always have room to be corrected, and if someone's claims are factual then they won't have any problem backing them up.

I can do that if you want to talk about it more, but I'd like to keep it on topic also and in here to where it can be referenced.

The main reason I post on certain things like this is because someone will read that eco23 said that ecocomplete leeches ammonia, and no one contested the claim, so it must be true, and now they go around and say the same thing, and it goes on and on.

All fair and understandable. I did however just independently confirm with another member that eco complete does indeed leech ammo. He set up his tank with that as a substrate, let it sit with only substrate and water in the tank, he waited for his plants to arrive, and was getting ammo readings after a few days. His tap water also has no chloramines and a 0 ammo reading. So removing all other variables...IMO, eco complete leeching ammo is factual info.

 

[Irish.OG87]

My apologies if you find it borderline offensive. You said, "I've never personally used a soil substrate, but I was informed by Fort (Mod), that eco complete does in fact leech ammo.", this statement to me reads that you don't have any personal experience with it and you are basing your facts on what someone told you about it. You didn't mention any other sources at all (forum posts/site documentation/etc), so yes, I consider that parroting, but still not intending any offense.

You post in nearly every thread in regard to cycling, so it's hard not to see your posts. You have tons of posts that I don't respond to at all, or I even concur with you, so don't be upset when I call out anything I consider inaccurate. Considering how many posts you have in all these threads you should think if anything that I agree with the vast majority of your posts, because I have nothing more to add on it.

And in all fairness, in an open forum like this, you should expect to have others keep your information in check. I expect others to do the same to my posts, also.

Yep, that's my purpose of posting when I see something that I consider inaccurate or misleading. It may very well be completely accurate, I always have room to be corrected, and if someone's claims are factual then they won't have any problem backing them up.

I can do that if you want to talk about it more, but I'd like to keep it on topic also and in here to where it can be referenced.

The main reason I post on certain things like this is because someone will read that eco23 said that ecocomplete leeches ammonia, and no one contested the claim, so it must be true, and now they go around and say the same thing, and it goes on and on.

eco may not have any experience with the substrate Eco-complete, but i do. I use 30lbs of that stuff and YES....is does leech ammonia. It leeches ammonia to create food for the plants, its made to convert fish waste into food for plants, but if ur adding pure ammonia to a cycling tank how does the substrate know which is which, guess what it doesnt. It took me forever to create beneficial bacteria when i was cycling, cos of the fact the eco-complete was eating 75% of the ammonia i was adding and not giving my bacteria enough food to "grow".

 

[jetajockey]

eco may not have any experience with the substrate Eco-complete, but i do. I use 30lbs of that stuff and YES....is does leech ammonia. It leeches ammonia to create food for the plants, its made to convert fish waste into food for plants,

I emailed Caribsea for clarification on this subject. I'm not sure if I follow your process here. Ecocomplete leeches ammonia to create food for plants? Ecocomplete is a type of claylike substrate similar to other planted substrates. The benefit of using these types of substrates is that they have a high CEC (cation exchange capacity), keeping nutrients available for the plant roots. Ecocomplete has an unknown (to me) amount of micronutrients and a few macronutrients imbedded in it (per their website), a blackwater solution, and heterotrophic bacteria.

Ecocomplete alone isn't responsible for the breakdown of organics into ammonia. Example, throw a piece of raw shrimp, flake food, or anything into a new tank. In a day or two you'll see ammonia.

The food for plants (kno3 aka nitrates) is produced whether there is substrate in the tank or not.

..but if ur adding pure ammonia to a cycling tank how does the substrate know which is which, guess what it doesnt.
It took me forever to create beneficial bacteria when i was cycling, cos of the fact the eco-complete was eating 75% of the ammonia i was adding and not giving my bacteria enough food to "grow".

I'm still not following your logic. First you say that ecocomplete leeches ammonia to feed plants, and now ecocomplete is eating the ammonia?

Plants can and do directly assimilate ammonia, they don't need ecocomplete or any other substrate material to help them.

Again, I think ecocomplete is catching the blame here. I'm not saying your experience is invalidated in any way, there are just a lot of assumptions being made that are contrary to the way the biology works.

This page is a good read, I've seen it linked to by others so hopefully that gives it at least a little cred here.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.htm

I'm really not trying to be personal at all and hope not to come off that way, I just want people to get a better understanding of how these processes work, especially when in the position of advising others.

Also wanted to add this fairly recent post I pulled up in a search.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f98/eco-complete-question-148042-2.html#post1295499

 

[eco23]

I've got to admit a mistake in my recollection. After reading back through what seems like my 10,000 PM's in my inbox, fort cited Aquasoil, not Eco-complete as a leeching substrate. That said, I still stand by the other reports (including another member I spoke with today) that ammonia levels have been recorded in unstocked new tanks with that substrate. I'm more than willing to admit mistakes...but every single word I have ever spoken on this site has been backed up by numerous things I've read, researched and / or experienced myself. I do not throw random bits of info out on the site without having reliable sources or first hand accounts of them being factual statements.

 

[jetajockey]

Just wanted to update with the response from Caribsea, here's the email.

Jud McCracken jud@caribsea.com to

david<*****@gmail.com>
date

Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:03 AMsubject

RE: Question about ecocomplete substrate
hide details 6:03 AM (4 hours ago)

There are no nitrogen compounds or organic components to Eco complete. No Ammonia.

Thanks,
Jud McCracken
Sales Manager, North America
CaribSea, Inc.
772-461-1113 ext 14
jud@caribsea.com
From: david [mailto*****@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:37 PM
To: tech@caribsea.com
Subject: Question about ecocomplete substrate


Hello I just had a quick question about ecocomplete planted substrate. There is some debate about whether this particular product leeches ammonia, so I wanted to clarify as to whether it does or not.

Thanks!

 

[WendiDell]

So I am just curious, could you transfer water from an established tank to a new tank to speed up the cycling process?

The nitrAtes that you read in the water is a byproduct of the good bacteria that grows in your filters and gravel/sand and on your decorations. So adding water with nitrAtes won't do anything.
A filter with high amount of the bacteria or a nylon stocking filled with gravel from an established tank or both is better.
A tank can be cycled pretty fast with sufficient seed material.

 

[Vicksta]

Ok, that sounds a lot more plausible that just transferring the water. I guess using material that supplies everything to make the tank happy work better. Thank you for the input on that.

 

[WendiDell]

Ok, that sounds a lot more plausible that just transferring the water. I guess using material that supplies everything to make the tank happy work better. Thank you for the input on that.

Any time.
Some times people like their tanks a bit sparse, not much in the way of decorations. I found that cycling is easier and quicker when you have a lot of decorations for the BB to grow on.

PS.We got 2 new Green Dragon BN Plecos today. They are very cute but small.

 

[pantherspawn]

Good morning Vicksta. Planting a lot of fast growing stem plants in a new tank will also help with the cycling process. I've used Water Sprite, Water Wisteria, Rotala, Ludwigia and Pennywort with good results. I used a substrate base of organic potting soil and covered it with standard pea gravel.

My tank cycled in 30 days. Didn't use any chemicals or any fish.

B

This doesn't speed up the cycle, just keeps spikes from happening and harming your fish. The cycle still takes the same amount of time.

 

[pantherspawn]

I've never personally used a soil substrate, but I was informed by Fort (Mod), that eco complete does in fact leech ammo. Not really an issue in a silent cycle as long as the tank sits before stocking...but definitely worth noting if someone makes the (IMO poor) decision to do a fish-in cycle.

I've used it and didn't have any ammo spikes at all.. matter of fact I've had no spikes of any kind. Just a constant 10 nitrate from the fish waste.