Sorry Newbie Question but really need some advice -- on cycling

[ADJAFC]

Hi there, I'm new to the forum but really need some helpful, clear advice! I've been reading through the existing posts on here and on other sites, plus talking to a couple of aquatic centres who 'seem' genuinely knowledgeable.

We have a new tank which has been running about 10 days and were really hopeful that we could have added a few fish by now to help with the 'cycle', however when we took at a water sample to the aquatic centre, the chap told us that our levels were not quite ideal, at this point they were
Ammonia - 0 mg/ltr
Nitrite - 0.3-0.8
Nitrate - 30-50ppm

He suggested a 50% water change, and test it again with our new liquid test kit 2 days later, which we did. However now our levels are as follow:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 1.5-2
Nitrate - over 50ppm

The tank is running at 24 degrees, has 4 live plants in it and no fish, it is perfectly clear and all we have added is Aqua Safe to get rid of the chlorine.

Can someone please give us a blow by blow account of what we can do, as the chap at the aquatic's place suggested more 50% water changes to bring the levels down but thats really not helped, plus some sites have said that large water changes actually increase the cycle time.

In addition, we've heard of suggestions of either getting a few hardy fish to help the cycle, to adding a piece of fresh fish to the tank to help with the bacteria growth. I have no access to an old filter, although thats been another suggestion.

HELP!!!
Thanks in advance!

 

[mgamer20o0]

are you adding ammonia to the tank?

 

[austinsdad]

I know you posted in the fresh water side, but just to make sure - this is a fresh or salt water setup?

 

[ADJAFC]

No, I haven't put any ammonia in the tank as I wasn't told to originally, and yes its a freshwater tank... i'd love a salt water setup eventually but I thought I'd start simple (not that its simple!)

 

[jsoong]

Now that you ahve your own test kit, would you test your tap water & see what you get??

That >50 nitrate is odd, unless you have high nitrate in your source water. And in a planted tank too ....

How are your plants doing? Since you are not adding ammonia, i am not sure where that nitrites are coming from .... possibly the plants are dying back & decaying? Also, what is your substrate, fertilizer & lights?

When you are cycling a tank, your goal is to establish a bacterial colony so it will convert ammonia (fish waste) to nitrates (much less toxic). This is a 2 step process, with nitrites as the intermediate product.

Without adding fish, you will need to add a source of ammonia to the tank to start the bacteria going. Usu. people add chemically pure ammonia, but an alternative would be a pinch of fish food daily, or a raw shrimp. <Decay of food food, or the shrimp will produce ammonia.>

I am a bit skeptical of the nitrate & nitrite readings. Without adding an ammonia source, it is rather unlikely to have nitrites but no ammonia. <And plants tend to absorb ammonia directly so if they are healthy, you often won't see nitrites.> The hobby nitrite/nitrate kits are rather finicky to use. You should calibrate the kits by testing for zero. If you test tap water & it still shows nitrates & nitrites like your tank, you should test a sample of distilled water to make sure you read zero. If distilled water donesn't read zero on all the tests, your test kit is kaput.>

It is possible for tap water to have nitrates (agricultural contamination, but prob not in the 50's), but nitrites should not be present.

 

[ADJAFC]

Hi there, thanks for your reply.

The plants are actually doing really well, they are noticeably growing and looking very healthy having been in the tank for 9 days. The lighting is as standard with the tank (Aqua One 500 PL Lamp), the substrate is just grey mixed aquarium gravel and we have not used any kind of fertiliser at this stage for the plants.

I've checked our tap water just now
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20-50 (probably closer to 50)

We're using Nutrafin test kits as they were apparently the best ones to buy, and from those readings they certainly seem accurate, just for continuity, I tested some distilled bottled water with the Nitrate test kit and it was 0 so there is nothing wrong with the kits and the readings were accurate.

What would you do next? Should we be doing repeated water changes and if so how much? OR should we be introducing ammonia asap (and would you go for the shrimp or the chemical version?)

Its quite frustrating as we're desperate to have some fish in our pristine tank but realise its important to be patient.

 

[ampa one]

welcome to AA

 

[jsoong]

You have quite the high nitrates in your tap water! Generally, you want only maybe 10-20 of nitrates in even a planted tank. The high nitrates may give you problems (algae, nutrient imbalance for the plants) down the road. In the meantime, that high nitrate will interfere with the interpretation of the cycle.

Being that you have not added any ammonia, it would be best to assume that the tank is not even started on cycling. <The presence of nitrite might indicated that somehow you got ammonia into the tank - say some decaying matter with the plants or gravel - and the cycle is on the way ... but it is safer to assume otherwise.>

I would start to add ammonia & do a proper fishless cycle. It would be easier (less smelly & more control) if you can get pure ammonia (100% USP, preferable chemical grade, but the cleaning ammonia will do as long as it does NOT contain any surfactant, soaps, or other additives.) However, people outside of the US have had trouble getting suitable ammonia, so you might have to use the raw shrimp method.

If you can get the proper ammonia, you would start by adding 4 ppm each day. If the tank had not started cycling, you would see an ammonia peak. If somehow you have started the cycle in the last weeks, the ammonia will be converted to nitrites & you will see a nitrite spike. Keep dosing the ammonia daily until you see no nitrites or ammonia. Normally the presence of nitrates will indicate the completion of cycling, but in your case, you will have to rely on ammonia clearance. If you add 4 ppm of ammonia, wait an hour or 2, and there is no trace of ammonia or nitrites, you can be certain that the bacteria is established enough to handle fish. <if you don't get fish right away, continue feeding the bacteria with ammonia daily so they don't die.>

Alternatively, you can just put in a raw shrimp (pref in a mesh bag so you can retrieve the remains easily) & watch your levels. When you have gone through the ammonia/nitrie spikes, the cycle is finished. Disadvantage is that you cannot test for ammonia clearance with just this, and the nitrate in your tap preclude you using NO3 spike as an indicator. And rotting shrimp might smell!

The presence of the plant may complicate matter. Generally, plants carry the nitrifying bacteria on their surfaces, so you will speed up the cycling process. OTOH, plants also take up ammonia directly. Sometimes a lot of plants may take up so much ammonia that you have to dose a lot of ammonia to get any levels to start the cycle. However, if you do the ammonia clearance test, you will know that the system can handle that amount of ammonia. Whether the ammonia is handled by bacteria or plants is immaterial, you are safe to add fish regardless.

 

[ADJAFC]

Howdy folks, after much patient waiting and many many water tests, we have finally got there. Nitrite was 0, Ammonia was 0 last night so we went and bought our first fish... very exciting!

We decided on a red gourami and a blue gourami and also two flying foxes to help with the algae to get us started. They have taken to the tank really quickly and are already showing their individual characters.

We're thinking of guppys and possibly an armoured shrimp for next week (providing the water is back to 0) but we'd welcome any other suggestions for a lively, interesting tank.