Starter fish advice?

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I do have a question...I think better to ask here than bring up the Glofish somewhere else and risk flaming.

Do Glofish only glow with those blue LEDs they want too much money for, or would my 3 foot blacklight bar work?
 
I do have a question...I think better to ask here than bring up the Glofish somewhere else and risk flaming.

Do Glofish only glow with those blue LEDs they want too much money for, or would my 3 foot blacklight bar work?

I'm pretty sure actual blacklights are bad for your tank. You can always put in an actinic bulb if you aren't planning on keeping it planted.

They glow no matter what. They just stand out a bit more under an actinic light.
 
I'm happy your researching before you buy!

The demasoni and red tail shark wouldn't work out. Scarlet badis are nano fish that do well with other nano fish. In a 46g you could do

2 angelfish-
3 swordtails (1m 2f)
3 mollies (1m 2f)
1 German blue ram
1 apistogramma
8 Cory cats
2 schools of 6 small schooling fish.
Or 12-14 of 1 type of schooling fish.

If you decide to the 12-14 schooling fish, I'd do cardinal tetras. Very brightly colored and your daughter should love them!


I agree with everything in this post, minus the apistogramma and the German blue ram. They are very sensitive fish and not for beginners.
 
I agree with everything in this post, minus the apistogramma and the German blue ram. They are very sensitive fish and not for beginners.


i agree with the ram, but apistogramma cacatuoides is one of the hardiest species of fish I've kept. some apistogrammas are extremely sensitive, but not cacatuoides
 
Bolivian rams would be a good substitute for the German blue ram, I also believe that apistogramma cacatuoides is a hardy species.
 
bolivian rams are actually one of the fish i don't recommend for beginners, as they are much more sensitive than german blues. most will say the same, but some are just as hardy as the german blue rams. GBRs are easy to keep, as long as the water quality is kept in check
 
From what I read, Bolivian rams are slightly hardier than the German blue rams
 
My bolivian did fine for a while but died when nitrate spiked up to 35. So I don't know what to think. None of the other fish even looked frazzled by that, so I don't think bolivians are very hardy either.
 
I agree with the cac's being tough little fish, it was my first fish, I was mis-informed and not very well known to the ins and outs of fish keeping he has survived poor stocking choices, mini cycles, now he's doing great!
 
German blue rams from a half decent breeder is easy for a beginner, just keep up with water changes (heck, Im not very good at doing water changes and mine are fine)
 
Don't have any lights or filter yet. I was going to go with a fluorescent multiple light setup. One for normal daytime viewing, and a 'moonlight', if I can find one. For filter, I was planning on a 'backpack' type with the capacity for a bigger tank, just to be sure it can keep up with whatever we stick in the tank.

I have been doing a lot a research on the hang on back filters. I am a pretty big fan of the Fluval C series. For you size tank if you want extra filtration then the C4 should fit the bill. They are a bit pricey and there are lots of cheaper filter choices but it you have the coin...

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Sorry, I'm about to rain a bit on your parade, but it is in the best interests of both the fish, your pocketbook and success.

You might want to rethink the Triops. Though they are quite interesting, at best they are only going to live about fourteen weeks, longevity depends on the exact species. They have evolved to survive very harsh conditions, so they live only long enough to lay sufficient numbers of eggs, then die. The eggs hatch, and the next generation carries on, when conditions allow. So you don't have shrimp to watch a lot of the time.

And when they are newly hatched, most fish are going to eat them as food. If you want them, they need their own container, without fish. This is true of most fish, that they will eat almost anything that will fit into their mouths, such as baby fish,aka fry.

You may want to look at some of the danio species. Gold Zebra danios are very pretty, bright, hardy, lively, shoaling more than schooling, tending to stay near the top levels except if they are spawning. Kyathit danio come in two colour forms. The spotted one is lovely. Gold body, big dark spots like a leopard. There is also a Leopard danio, with tiny spots on a paler body, the long fin version has a lot of yellow on the ends of the fins. Sexing is possible, females are always rounder and fuller in the belly, males are slimmer and more torpedo shaped. Never buy any that look really skinny or bent or have deformed spines, as with many fish today, they are highly inbred and genetic defects are not uncommon.

Long fins are available in many danio species. Only the Giant danio gets big. Four inches or so. Pearl danios can get close to three inches, the others max out at two inches or less. There's also the Celestial pearl danio, known by at least two other names as well. A tiny fish, males dark blue with white spots that look like stars in the sky, females much lighter blue, same spots, just harder to see. Mid level swimmers that only feed in mid levels, so must have food that will sink to their level. Very pretty, but like quiet water and are not so happy with big or lively tank mates.

Some rasboras are very colourful, and small. Easier to keep than tetras, tolerant of harder alkaline water more so than tetras are. Lambchop rasbora is the colour of a new penny with a black mark on the side shaped like a lambchop.

Beckford's Pencil fish, while not the brightest of colours, are fun. Two inches or so, females have a black stripe down the middle, males have that on a darker background with bright red fins and a red spot on the belly. Two males showing off or displaying, will wriggle by each other and those red spots and fins will just glow, as if they are plugged in. Never fight, only show off. One male to three females, and best to have seven or so total. Plenty of plants to break up sight lines so two males do not see each other all the time and display to each other too much.

Ghost shrimp are the easiest of shrimp to keep, but they don't have baby shrimp that look like they do. They have larvae, most of which don't survive, though some may well make it. Their eggs float to the surface, hatch and four days later, give or take, morph into very tiny shrimplets. Most are eaten or sucked into the filter. Placing a prefilter made of sponge on the filter intake can prevent being sucked up, with shrimp and fry alike.

Like all shrimp, they need a well established tank with plenty of biofilm, which takes at least several months to grow. It is not the same as cycling, it's simply a bacterial film that grows and there's a relationship between the animals and biofilm that is not entirely clear. Shrimp eat it, some fish eat it, but it is not just a food source. Its lack can mean some species won't live long no matter what you do. So patience pays off with shrimp, loaches and a number of other species. If the research says not to add a species to a new tank, this is why. It should be respected, as it can make quite a difference to how long fish or shrimp live.

Kuhli loaches are very attractive and I keep a lot of them. But if you want to 'see' the loaches, might want to get Black kuhlis. They don't have the pretty stripes, but you'll see them often, even in the day, even when it's not feeding time. They often chase each other in vertical circles, somewhat like a ferris wheel, fun to watch. Much less secretive than the striped kuhlis are.

All the kuhli type loaches need a group of their own to do well. Three is the bare minimum, six is much, much better. The more you have the happier they are and the more you will see them. They need plenty of hiding places, and you must use reasonably smooth rocks, wood or other decor, because they have a habit of squeezing into the smallest cracks, and can damage themselves badly, being scraped on rough surfaces. They also like to burrow, so a fine grain substrate with smooth grains is needed for them, and also for cories, to prevent wear and tear not only on skin but on the barbels on their chins, which they use to help find food.

One or two loaches alone will hide nearly all the time and rarely be seen by anyone, sadly. Cories kept in singles or pairs often hide a lot too.

Badis can be hard to get, and while they are pretty peaceful, they're not what I'd consider a beginner fish. Only the males have colour, females are quite dull. They can be difficult to feed and keep happy, quite picky over water parameters. They need an established tank to do well, also a heavily planted tank is best for them.

The German blue rams can be peaceful, but they can also be pushy, and are most surely not a beginner fish. They are quite picky about ideal parameters. Personally, I would not take them on even though I have kept fish for many years. For new keepers, not a fish I'd like to see you start with, as there is too much chance they won't do well.

The apistogramma is also not a great choice for beginners. Picky about their conditions, can be aggressive, need established tank.

Upsidedown catfish are another issue. Find out what species they actually are, as several are sold under this name. Most will want a school of their own, at least four fish, and they need softer, more acidic water than the livebearers do. Thus, they don't really do well as community fish in harder, alkaline water.

They are insect feeders mostly, in the wild, taking them from the surface, as well as grazers, so they do better with at least some live foods, which you may not be prepared to offer. The upside down catfish, while small as catfish go, also get to be about four inches or so, and if you have the school they need, it will mean not having some of the fish you want. There are plenty of cory species of catfish that are good with the same water as mollies or swords, so I'd stick with them for starters.

Of the fish you are liking so far, the best community fish are the mollies and swords and cories. The livebearers can all grow to a fair size, four inches or so, and you have to plan for them to be that size. The sex ratio is ok, but 3 girls to one boy might be even better. They are tolerant and not nearly so picky about ideal water conditions or biofilm as the other fish you like.

Cories are also quite hardy.. six is enough for decent group, if you can, two boys to four girls is a nice ratio. Long fin cories are easier to sex, the boys have much higher dorsal fins than the girls. Regular fins, boys are slimmer, females more rounded, when seen from above, not the side.

If you start with fish like the livebearers, [mollies and swords], or platies, and cories, and wait awhile, you can get the loaches and shrimp a bit later on, when the biofilm has grown in. Be sure to offer sinking foods for the bottom feeders. Keep food sealed from air, don't buy huge packages, as it does go off with time. Try some frozen foods, daphnia or Brine shrimp or even bloodworms. Fish love it and live or frozen food given a couple of times a week can make a big difference to growth, colour and health of all fish.

Angel fish are lovely. I like them so much, and if you are fortunate, you may get a pair that mates. Even unmated females may lay eggs. Often eggs get fungus and don't hatch, unless you make preparations to take care of them yourself. But it's fun to watch mated Angels. They'll want a spot to spawn, a slanted bit of slate or even Amazon sword leaves, which they use in nature, which the female cleans off before she lays. They will chase all other fish away from their site and continue to do so until after the eggs hatch, become wigglers, feeding off their yolk sacs, then swimmers. Parent fish, as with most cichlids, guard their kids, and parents will even move eggs if they don't like the first spot. If they start spawning, they are likely to continue doing so. They may pretty much take over their territory in the tank. At least it is large enough to allow for this. Some Angel fish can be aggressive, while others won't be. Try getting two the same size and with any luck they will get on fine, with each other & everybody else. Many of the newer, fancier colour forms are getting rather inbred as well, so keep an eye out for any deformities in the young ones.

All fish need clean water, a well maintained filter, and most look best with a nicely planted tank. Plants need not be high maintenance, nor need extreme light, but pick the ones that don't have high needs, like anacharis, anubias, java ferns, valisnerias, green sword plants, among many.

Make sure the tank is cycled first. It can take several weeks to cycle a tank, so be prepared for that time frame. Adding many fish to an uncycled tank just results in dead fish, which not only costs money, it is very disappointing, especially to children.

You add fish only a few at a time, so the filter can grow more of the BB, beneficial bacteria, that change fish waste from toxic ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite, also very toxic, to nitrate, to handle the new load of waste from new fish. Nitrate is used by plants, but levels are mainly controlled by regular partial water changes.

If you don't like lugging buckets, you may want to consider investing in a Python or Aqueon water change system. Not cheap, but no bucket lugging can make maintenance much less of a chore. Used to remove water, clean the gravel, add new water, directly to and from the tap at the sink.

You will also need a water test kit. API makes a master kit, cheaper than buying the basics separately. Seachem makes tests too, there are several brands. Seachem's ammonia test is a better one, IMO, because it tells you how much free [dangerous] ammonia there is and how much ammonium [ chemically bound and not dangerous in most cases ] there is.

API test shows total ammonia, both of these together, and it may seem you have a low level of ammonia to worry over when in fact you don't. You must be able to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. A GH and KH test can also be useful but those won't be in a master kit. These tests tell you how hard your water is, which is related to how stable your tank will be in terms of pH.

Test your tap water so you know what you have to work with. Tap water is often hard and alkaline, so it is by far the easier thing to keep fish that like this kind of water, than to try and change it's natural state.

Tetras and Angels prefer softer, more acidic water, but the thing to remember is that fish, for the most part, are quite adaptable. It may matter more for breeding purposes than for general keeping. But generally speaking, most fish are better off in water with not quite ideal pH or hardness, which will remain stable all the time. Constant swings or changes of pH, hardness or other parameters is stressful and may shorten lives, or end them. Stable tanks always do better, and have happier fish, than those that are meddled with all the time in pursuit of the 'exact, ideal' pH or whatever.

I keep loaches, cories and even panda garras all together, and they are fine. I feed in at least three places, so each can find their own place, and I feed live often, which helps quite a bit. So long as there is enough real estate and hiding places for each species, and suitable foods, they are fine together, in my experience. Just don't start with loaches.. wait 'til the tank is established.

Personally I'm very fond of Aquaclear filters. Easy to run, easy to clean, easy to get parts, can use any media you want, in any combination you want.. adjustable flow rates too. What more can you ask ?

You might want to rethink the Triops. At best they are only going to live fourteen weeks. They are a species that has evolved to survive very harsh conditions, so they live only long enough to lay enough eggs, then die. The eggs hatch, and the next generation carries on, when conditions allow.

When new hatched, most fish are going to eat them as food. If you want them, they need their own container, without fish.

Ghost shrimp are the easiest of shrimp to keep, but like all shrimp, they need a well established tank with plenty of biofilm, which takes at least several months to grow in. It is not the same as cycling, it's simply a bacterial film that grows and there's a relationship between fish, shrimp and biofilm that is not entirely clear. Shrimp eat it, some fish eat it, but it is not just a food source. It's lack can mean some species won't live long no matter what you do. So patience pays off with shrimp, loaches and a number of other species.

Kuhli loaches are very attractive and I keep a lot of them. But if you want to 'see' the loaches, get Black kuhlis. They don't have the pretty stripes, but you'll see them often, even in the day, even when it's not feeding time. They often chase each other in vertical circles, somewhat like a ferris wheel, fun to watch. All the kuhli type loaches need a group of their own to do well. Three is the bare minimum, six is much, much better. The more you have the happier they are and the more you will see them. They need plenty of hiding places, and you must use reasonably smooth rocks, wood or other decor, becase they have a habit of squeezing into the smallest cracks, and can damage themselves badly by being scraped on rough surfaces. They also like to burrow, so a fine grain substrate with smooth grains is needed for them, and also for cories, to prevent wear and tear not only on skin but on the barbels on their chins.

One or two loaches alone will hide nearly all the time and rarely be seen by anyone, sadly.

Badis can be hard to get, and while they are pretty peaceful, they're not what I'd consider a beginner fish. Difficult to feed and keep happy. They need an established tank to do well, not a newly cycled one.

The blue rams can be peaceful, but they can also be pushy, and are most surely not a beginner fish. They are quite picky about ideal conditions, and I would not take them on even though I have kept fish for many years. They can be ok in a community tank but for newbies just not

The apistogramma is also not at all for beginners. Picky about their conditions, can be aggressive.

Of the fish you are liking so far, the best community fish are the mollies and swords. They can all grow to a fair size, four inches or so, and you have to plan for them to be that size, not buy lots now and then have to get rid of some when they get too large. The sex ratio is ok, but 3 girls to one boy might be even better. They are tolerant and not nearly so picky about ideal water conditions or biofilm as the other fish you like are.

Cories are also quite hardy.. six is enough for decent group, if you can, two boys to four girls is a nice ratio. Long fin cories are easier to sex, the boys have much higher dorsal fins than the girls do. Regular fins, boys are slimmer, females more rounded seen from above, not the side.

If you start with fish like the livebearers, mollies and swords, and wait awhile, you can get the loaches and shrimp a bit later on, when the biofilm has grown in.

Angel fish are lovely. I like them so much, and if you are fortunate to get a pair that mates, you may get eggs. Even females will lay eggs without a male partner, but of course they won't hatch. But some Angel fish can be aggressive, while others won't be. Try getting two the same size and with any luck they will get on fine.

All fish need clean water, a well maintained filter, and most look best with a nicely planted tank too. Plants need not be high maintenance, nor need extreme light, but pick the ones that don't have high needs, like anacharis, anubias, java ferns, valisnerias, among many.

Make sure the tank is cycled first. It can take several weeks to cycle a tank, so be prepared for that time frame. Adding many fish to an uncycled tank just results in dead fish, which not only costs money, it is very disappointing, especially to children.

You add fish only a few at a time, so the filter can grow more of the BB, beneficial bacteria, that change fish waste from toxic ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite, also very toxic, to nitrate. Nitrate is used by plants, but is controlled by regular partial water changes.

If you don't like lugging buckets, you may want to consider investing in a Python or Aqueon water change system. Not cheap, but no bucket lugging can make maintenance much less of a chore. Used to change water, clean the gravel, add new water.

You will also need a water test kit. API makes a master kit, cheaper than buying the basics separately. Seachem makes tests too, there are several brands. Seachem's ammonia test is a better one, IMO, because it tells you how much free[ dangerous] ammonia there is and how much ammonium [ chemically bound and not dangerous in most cases] there is. API test shows total ammonia, both of these together, and it may seem you have a low level of ammonia to worry over when in fact you don't.

Test your tap water so you know what you have to work with. Tap water is often hard and alkaline, so it is by far easier to keep fish that like this kind of water. Tetras and Angels prefer softer, more acidic water, but the thing to remember is that fish, for the most part, are quite adaptable. Most are better off in water that may not have the ideal pH or hardness, but does remain stable all the time. Constant swings or changes of pH, hardness or other parameters is stressful and may shorten lives, or end them. Stable tanks always do better, and have happier fish, than those that are meddled with all the time in pursuit of the 'exact, ideal' pH or whatever.

Wow. Good contribution.

Whatever fish you do decide to get, check out this little stocking calculator for a quick reference.


AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor
 
I have danios, they are active and very cool, also the cherry shrimp are good since they eat algie and are easy to take care of, also I have heard that snowball eels are cool but I don't own one
 
Okay, so after some consideration, I think we've decided to go with (not all at once);
2 Angels (1 koi, 1 blue)
3-4 Austraile Killifish
4-5 Cory cats of different varieties
1+ albino longfin pleco
and a school of tetras/danios (probably Glofish or mix of regular +Glo),
and maybe Red Fin Zebra Eel, if we can find one.

Your list is ok, but the cories should all be of the same variety.
 
Thanks for the continued advice folks, but old thread is old.

The tank in question has been up since October, with 2 Angelfish (started smaller than dime size, now more than 2 inches on the body) 6 glofish, 2 ottos, a nerite snail, and a pair of GBRs.

I've since set up my 'aquascape' in a 55 gallon tank as well, and it's currently housing a single angel (with 4 more in QT), 10 neon tetras, 4 ghost shrimp, and a single whiptail pleco.

My wife also now has a 30 gallon (with plans to upgrade) with a single Dragon goby in it, for now. He/she is only about 6 inches, so we still have growing room.
 
Thanks for the continued advice folks, but old thread is old.

The tank in question has been up since October, with 2 Angelfish (started smaller than dime size, now more than 2 inches on the body) 6 glofish, 2 ottos, a nerite snail, and a pair of GBRs.

I've since set up my 'aquascape' in a 55 gallon tank as well, and it's currently housing a single angel (with 4 more in QT), 10 neon tetras, 4 ghost shrimp, and a single whiptail pleco.

My wife also now has a 30 gallon (with plans to upgrade) with a single Dragon goby in it, for now. He/she is only about 6 inches, so we still have growing room.

You got a lot of new tanks fast! I want to see some pictures!
 
Linky to my photobucket album of all the fish pics I've taken. I'll be adding more soon, including pics of my aquascape. The dragon goby is my wife's prize.

Also, in the pics of my tank, you'll notice the white sand is rather....BROWN. It seems to be growing rather quickly. I was thinking brown algae, but I'm not sure. I have some Tetra brand algae killer, but it's not safe to use with my ghost shrimp, so I don't want to use it if I don't have to. Also, my single whiptail catfish seems to be feasting on it every night, but doesn't seem to be making much headway, if any. Any other suggestions? I'm also told by the guys at my LFS that part of it could be because of my city's water supply getting low this time of year and pulling more of the slimes out of the reservoir?
 
Linky to my photobucket album of all the fish pics I've taken. I'll be adding more soon, including pics of my aquascape. The dragon goby is my wife's prize.

Also, in the pics of my tank, you'll notice the white sand is rather....BROWN. It seems to be growing rather quickly. I was thinking brown algae, but I'm not sure. I have some Tetra brand algae killer, but it's not safe to use with my ghost shrimp, so I don't want to use it if I don't have to. Also, my single whiptail catfish seems to be feasting on it every night, but doesn't seem to be making much headway, if any. Any other suggestions? I'm also told by the guys at my LFS that part of it could be because of my city's water supply getting low this time of year and pulling more of the slimes out of the reservoir?

Sounds like diatoms. Should go away on Its own eventually
 
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