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Old 07-27-2011, 11:51 PM   #11
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You have to take one step at a time,two diffent kinds of bacteria will build up,one kind will convert amonia into nitrites and the other nitrite into nitrates,nitrates is way less toxic ,but you have to deal with it later on. Maybe this is a stupid question, did you put bacteria in your tank allready right?
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discus4Life
You have to take one step at a time,two diffent kinds of bacteria will build up,one kind will convert amonia into nitrites and the other nitrite into nitrates,nitrates is way less toxic ,but you have to deal with it later on. Maybe this is a stupid question, did you put bacteria in your tank allready right?
Are you talking about bottled cycling products or seeded media? I'd highly recommend against virtually every "instant cycling" product on the market...with the exception of one which is hit or miss. Without going into the science too deeply...most are useless, and others can potentially create dangerously unstable bio-filters. The only options in my personal opinion are to grow it naturally...or find established media from a friend with a healthy tank.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:56 PM   #13
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yes, I have one in both tanks - sized 1050 - larger than needed but figured bigger is always better!

I was answering if I had any kind of aeration in the tanks - I have 1050 powerheads (?) pumps - those things that up in the corner propelling the water - fish seem to love playing in the currents!
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:01 AM   #14
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I originally used Turbo Start (about 3 weeks ago) and thought everything was okay but obviously not! I tooked a used filter from the 10 gl goldfish tank and put it in the filter of the 55 (with the Fluval 405 system) and another used filter and wrapped it around the water intake in the 75 gl (couldn't get into the FX5 Fluval system - didn't have a proper hose to drain the canister, but do now) - I did the "seeded" filters last week, hoping they will get the beneficial bacteria going or a boost. The only thing now I am adding is the Prime alternating with PWC with Prime.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:01 AM   #15
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yes, I have one in both tanks - sized 1050 - larger than needed but figured bigger is always better!
Sorry, can you catch me up? What are we talking about?
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:05 AM   #16
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It sounds like you're doing everything right now. At this point it's just an issue of staying patient and committed.

How long did the tank seem to be stable for after adding the cycling product? You unfortunately may be another example of why many of those products are not only usually unhelpful...but sometimes quite dangerous as well.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:05 AM   #17
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I hope this is good news - I just checked my tap water for nitrites and nitrates and they are zero! Just ammonia. I wonder if my Culligan man has something we could add to the softener - not sure I like ammonia in our drinking water!

I also had bought clear ammonia at Walgreen's thinking I found what I needed but did the shake test and it did foam - the active ingredients read:
ammonium hydroxide (CAS 1336-21-6) -- I am using it and the amm. levels are rising in the 20 gl (doing fishless cycle) but will try to find an Ace Hardware this weekend and get their stuff!
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:06 AM   #18
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Hey, just wanted to clarify some stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruinsbro1997
Those nitrates are awfully high. Over 80 can kill your fish, over 20 can damage them. Try your best to be good on the water changes.
Nitrates over 20 do not damage fish. Toxicity varies from species to species, but it's not uncommon for a tank to have over 20 nitrates at any given time. Nitrates at 80 do not outright kill fish. (Some people have 20-40 nitrates straight out of the tap) It's not an ideal number by any means, but in most cases it's not a life threatening level either.

Having high levels of nitrates for long periods of time seems to correlate to certain diseases, but it takes ALOT of nitrates to outright damage/kill a fish.
Quote:
Yes .5 is where it gets toxic. If it's .25 that shows you need to do a water change ASAP.
As mentioned already, toxicity can vary, the .25 is just a baseline # for people to aim for. I agree to keep ammonia levels down, but not because there is some set amount that makes it toxic/nontoxic.

the other issue that needs to be addressed here is that the source water is already at .5-1.0 ppm, so doing big water changes would actually ADD ammonia to the tank, lol.

Quote:
Add the Prime. Then let it sit for a while. It will take a bit for Prime to break the ammo down.
Prime doesn't break ammonia down. And it works instantly. It just binds free ammonia. Our basic liquid test kits do not differentiate between bound ammonia and free ammonia, so testing before/after dosing with Prime will not show a difference.


Not trying to pick apart your response, just wanted to clarify some things.

RE: the extra oxygen thing. Yeah, adding oxygen seems to help. I've read before that aerating ammoniated water will let it dissipate into the atmosphere kind of like chlorine does, but honestly, it's not going to do it fast enough to make a huge impact. If it did, then everyone running bubble wands and all kinds of other bubbling doodads would not have ammonia issues in their new tank setups. I'm in the camp that believes that the extra oxygen in the water helps fish breathe easier, so fish suffering from ammonia burns are gasping less. Turning down the temperature in the water has a similar effect.


@the OP: With the amount of nitrates your tank is creating, it looks like there is a lot of nitrification going on. Having large fish in the tank contributes to the constant ammonia level, but it sounds like you are on top of things. I would do larger water changes to keep the nitrates down and just keep doing what you are doing. What kind of filtration is on the tank? If possible, stuff any extra biomedia into the filter, or even put a prefilter sponge over the intake of it to give the bacteria another large area to colonize.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:07 AM   #19
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Oops, I was answering someone else about if I had aeration in my tanks!
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:14 AM   #20
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This is all great stuff - thanks for the help - beddybye time for me though!

I so appreciate you all and will keep on keeping on!
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