Tank not cycling?

[octanejunkie]

First I should say this is our first tank and we have next to no experience and little idea of what we are doing, but we are eager to learn and do it right.

Our 6-gallon tank has been setup and running since June 1st. We added 2 neon tetras after about a week (I know, too soon) and added one more NT last Saturday and 2 red cherry shrimp this past Monday. The RCS died after a few days but the neons seem fine. A detailed post of our setup can be found in my intro thread.

We took some water to the LFS today to be tested while we wait for our API Freshwater Master Kit to arrive ($18 on amazon can't be beat). Here are our water test stats as of today:
Ammonia 0.5 to 1.0 ppm
pH 7.6
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 5.0
Water temp is around 76° F and clear

LFS dude asked me if we have been over feeding, he was surprised the ammonia is where it is. I wonder if our tank hasn't fully cycled yet. Advice of LFS was do nothing, add nothing for another few weeks.

In reality, there should be enough organic matter in there to start a bacterial colony. Our filtration system seems to keep the water clean, though if you rustle the gravel about there is a ton of crud in there (LFS told me not to vacuum the gravel yet).

We are willing to leave our tank as is and wait it out, but if there are things we should or shouldn't be doing, we'd appreciate the advice of the constituency here

 

[jlk]

Welcome to AA!! Ok, first a few questions. Are you doing water changes (wcs)? How much and how often? What are you using as your water conditioner? Are you adding anything beyond water conditioner (chemicals, salt, additives, etc)?

Hopefully, your API kit will arrive soon! Knowing your exact parameters for both your tap water and your tank water will be very helpful. I suspect you may have ammonia and nitrate in your tap. In the meantime, I would suggest 50% wcs atleast daily. Make sure you temperature match and properly condition all new water. Prime or Amquel Plus will help keep ammonia/nitrite detoxed between wcs. I would also start gravel vac'ing weekly as debris and waste in the gravel nis likely contributing to your ammonia issue. Please ask if you have questions!

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

 

[octanejunkie]

Thanks for the response, JLK, and the link... I read that article Friday morning (6 weeks after hastily setting up my tank)

The API kit should be here Monday. In truth, I have no idea what is in my tap water, it never even occurred to me to test it.

I am using Tetra AquaSafe to condition the tap water I both setup the tank with and have used for topping off and the two partial water changes done so far. After reading several articles and threads it seems your recommendation of frequent partial water changes (up to daily 50%) is more common than I'd known, but hopefully not a longterm need. Ironically, the LFS told me NOT to do any more water changes (nor vac) and "just ride it out" to hopefully let the bacteria colony establish itself properly; the guy there suspected my tank was "soft cycling."

I am set to vac the gravel with a home made siphon/wand as I see detritus and fuzzy-wuzzy junk that the tetras keep trying to eat and spitting out. And though I've never done so before, it does seem reasonable and prudent.

Last note worth mentioning; our internal filter (AQ0080) uses a Tetra Whisper Small element, of which I am on the 3rd replacement element, the previous two clogged along with the original that came with the filter, which we discarded (stupidly) the last one I saved and rinsed out after it clogged and wouldn't pass enough water (pump was straining). The one that is in there now has not clogged in the last 2 weeks.

So, knowing what I know now, I probably did not allow the tank's internal chemistry to setup properly and am waiting for this to happen naturally. I am not apt to start adding chemicals to correct or buffer what is going on until it is clear I need to. I would rather be conservative, become more educated, test my tap water and allow our little world to establish itself; despite my efforts to date.

Two last questions:
1) daily water changes, yes or no? (and if yes, what %)
2) vacuum gravel, yes or no?

Thanks so much for helping another under-researched aquarist noob

 

[jlk]

Thanks for the info! Yes, do daily 50% wcs until you get your test kit. Once you have it, you can base your wcs off your numbers when you test daily. This may mean daily wcs, more frequent than daily or less frequent. you want to keep your ammonia and nitrite at or below .25ppm.

A gravel vac once a week and feed very minimally during the cycling process (1x a day or every other day, what the fish can eat in under a minute). Use a turkey baster to remove any food that is not eaten but there should not be any food remaining if your feeding properly. That 'fuzzy' stuff you are seeing is fungus growing and it will make your fish unwell. The debris and waste will also contribute to your ammonia issues.

In respect to the filter cartridge, you want to keep this because this is where most of your good bacteria will develop. Replacing them constantly is the most likely reason your cycle has not started yet but I also suspect you may have ammonia in the form of chloramine in your tap. We will know this once you have your test kit. Most basic water conditioners are intended to only work for chlorine, not chloramine. I would strongly suggest investing in a bottle of Prime for this reason and because it will help your fish through a fishin cycle. Rinse your filter cartridge in some used tank water from a wc when you notice it start to slow down. Hope this helps!

 

[octanejunkie]

OK - did 50% water change today. Used my home made vacuum siphon wand to get down to the bottom of the tank and rustle the gravel about a bit to suck some muck and water.

I managed to suck up one of my neon tetras with my vacuum siphon, freaked both the fish and me out a bit... took a few mins to net the fish and return him to the tank. I would imagine this was pretty stressful for the fish, I was able to adjust comfortably later with a beer.

I replace the tank water with temp-matched tap water (yes I know, my tap water is suspect until tested) dosed with Tetra AquaSafe (until I can find some Seachem Prime) and everything seems to be back to normal... I will test my water tomorrow (AFI Freshwater Master Kit arriving tomorrow) and post results.

Thanks for all the help and advice!

 

[jlk]

Just a tip on the API tests- make sure you read the instructions before using them and shake all of the bottles well, particularly the nitrate bottles (bang them on a hard surface while shaking) so you get accurate results. If you get a 'blue' result (7.6) on the regular ph test, make sure you also test with the high range ph test as 7.6 is the high limit for the regular ph.

 

[octanejunkie]

Just a tip on the API tests- make sure you read the instructions before using them and shake all of the bottles well, particularly the nitrate bottles (bang them on a hard surface while shaking) so you get accurate results. If you get a 'blue' result (7.6) on the regular ph test, make sure you also test with the high range ph test as 7.6 is the high limit for the regular ph.

Will do, thanks!

 

[octanejunkie]

Got my test kit today.

I'm pretty sure I followed the instructions supplied with the kit and advice of the forum members here. Here are my numbers:

Tank water
pH: 7.6+
High Range pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 0-0.25
Nitrate: 0-0.5

Tap water
pH: 7.6+
High Range pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.25

I will perform a pwc today and test my tank water again tomorrow.

From what I understand, I am looking for Ammonia and Nitrite to go to zero and Nitrate rising.

Open to suggestions and advise.

 

[jlk]

Make sure you test your tap for nitrite and nitrate. If there are none, then your tank is starting to cycle because you have some nitrite and nitrate. No need to use the regular ph test in future- you will only need the high range test.

 

[octanejunkie]

Make sure you test your tap for nitrite and nitrate. If there are none, then your tank is starting to cycle because you have some nitrite and nitrate. No need to use the regular ph test in future- you will only need the high range test.

Opps... silly oversight. Thanks JLK!

Here are the test results from today (10:30 AM) after a 40% wc last night:

Tank water
High Range pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0-0.25
Nitrite: 0-0.25
Nitrate: 0-0.5

Tap water
Nitrite: 0 (was a bit lighter than the tank water test)
Nitrate: 0

The bold numbers indicate the test square my sample was closest to, though not a dead match (according to my eye)

 

[TangoTank]

...

Our 6-gallon tank has been setup and running since June 1st. We added 2 neon tetras after about a week (I know, too soon) and added one more NT last Saturday and 2 red cherry shrimp this past Monday. The RCS died after a few days but the neons seem fine. A detailed post of our setup can be found in my intro thread.

What type of flake food are you feeding them?? Aqueon?? It has Copper, will kill invertebrates. Just make sure foods don't contain Copper Sulfates.

 

[octanejunkie]

What type of flake food are you feeding them?? Aqueon?? It has Copper, will kill invertebrates. Just make sure foods don't contain Copper Sulfates.

Good point

The flake food we are using is TetraMin+ Tropical Flake, ingredients don't list anything with copper

 

[TangoTank]

Good point

The flake food we are using is TetraMin+ Tropical Flake, ingredients don't list anything with copper

TetraMin should be fine

 

[octanejunkie]

TetraMin should be fine

Thanks for inquiring... the level of epxertise and sharing here is great

BTW, TT, nice clown fish pics

 

[TangoTank]

Thanks for inquiring... the level of epxertise and sharing here is great

BTW, TT, nice clown fish pics

Thanks!!

 

[octanejunkie]

Update

Here are the test results from last night around 6:30 PM:

Tank water
High Range pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Again, did a 40% wc right after seeing these numbers. Tested again this morning:

High Range pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 0-0.25 (this sample really doesn't match, my sample is way more blue vs. The cards tiles being more green)
Nitrate: 0-5.0, closer to 0

Wondering if I should look at something like AmmoLock or pH Down from API... not sure what's going on.

 

[jlk]

Do not mess with your ph. Your fish are adapted to it. Ph chemicals have temporary, if any effect, and can result in drastic ph swings which are detrimental to fish. A stable ph is the best thing.

Did you get any Prime yet? This is all that's needed to condition your water and keep ammonia detoxed between wcs. Amm-lock type products have a similar effect but they only work for ammonia- Prime also detoxes nitrite which is just as dangerous to fish.

 

[octanejunkie]

Picked up a small bottle of Prime this morning, 500ml more arriving by the weekend.

How careful w dosage do I need to be w Prime, can I accidentally overdose and cause adverse affect?

Should I get an eyedropper or is there a dispenser cap I can get?

 

[octanejunkie]

Update 7-17 PM

Took water readings after work today:
High Range pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Did a 50% wc w Seachem Prime, will test again tomorrow AM

One question: the micro sword plant in our tank has several dead leaves (transparent w no pigment) - could the decomposition of this plant be adding ammonia to the tank?

 

[octanejunkie]

Update 7-18

Tested my water twice today after a 50% water change last night; I got essentially the same numbers in the AM and PM:

pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Not sure if I'm going crazy, expecting result too soon or what... perhaps I need a second opinion. Here are pics of the tests tonight:

High Range pH

Ammonia

Nitrite

Nitrate

All tubes at once

Opinions?