They're Dying ... Help!

[EasternCanuck]

Hi there,

I'm not a total noob at freshwater fish keeping but it has been a long time since I had my old 33 gallon set up back in Canada.

I live in Singapore at the moment and since I am living in a tropical region I figured I would try my hand at fish keeping again (it's much cheaper here than I remember it being back in Canada).

I just set up a new 20 gallon tank, purchased from one of the many aquarium shops on my street. I have it planted with 8 different plants, have a piece of treated driftwood in it, and have a soil substrate (little brown balls of dirt I guess? I never had this in Canada but it is common here and I am told it is good for plants).

I have no canopy but have a double light on top (12000K each light) and the lights are on for about 12 hours per day (probably too much).

The filter is an in-tank filter (comes as a kit, Juwel Rekord 600), which I have never used before (I had an aquafilter before, which is like a little waterfall).

One problem here is temperature and I have a little fan that blows over the water surface to help keep it between 26-28 Celsius.

I have a CO2 tank hooked up with a diffuser at a rate of one bubble per second (the little bubble counter). I have never used a CO2 tank before but they are common here (they weren't back home).

I hope that gives a better picture of my tank. My PH is below 6 at the moment, but I am attributing that to the CO2, driftwood and soil substrate.

At the advice of my local aquarium shop, I put in 8 cardinal tetras and 4 Rams 2 days ago.

I was getting hair algae so I added in about 40 little shrimp (Japanese name I can't remember). Again at the advice of my local aquarium shop.

It all seemed fine until today when I came home and all my fish were swimming at the top of the water? My water seemed a bit cloudy as well.

I did a 50% water change as nitrate/nitrite levels were very high and it seemed there was no oxygen in the water. I have lost 4 of the 8 tetras and I am fearful for my Rams.

Even with the 50% water change the tetras are still at the top of the water. The Rams are hiding.

I have turned off the CO2.

Help?

 

[dkpate]

Did you cycle the tank before you put the fish in? I am guessing not since your nitrate and nitrite levels are so high. What is your ammonia level? You can search articles on here on fishless cycling. Or you can go the way I did my first time and use established disease-free media from another tank and stick that in your filter or in the tank and it will speed up the cycling process. That is the only answer I can give you, sorry I can't be of more help. Good luck!

 

[EasternCanuck]

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply. I had thought it was cycled but apparently not at all. I was too eager I guess, which I know is a downfall of lots of new enthusiasts. I feel bad for the fish.

I'll keep on the water changes and see see what happens.Hopefully some live.

 

[dkpate]

Don't worry, I did the EXACT same thing when I started a month ago...I felt the same way you did, but thankfully all my fish pulled through! I have done SO MANY water changes in the last 4 weeks....lol. And have also gotten from 1 fish, to 17...lol! And from 1 tank to 4. Would it be possible for you to get some filter media or possibly some gravel from an established tank? I had to do that with mine, and it REALLY sped up the cycle. Like from 6-8 weeks, to 1 week. If you get some gravel, buy a new pair of pantyhose (no soap on them) cut the foot off and put the gravel in there and set that in your tank. It has the bacteria you need to get everything going. And squeeze it once in a while to "set them free" lol. Do you have a liquid test kit? I hope everything works out for you!

 

[EasternCanuck]

Thank you again for such a quick response.

I suppose I could ask my local aquarium shop for a handful of gravel. The plants that I put in should have had some culture on them to help but I guess not enough.

The panty hose sounds like a good idea, LOL. I'll see if they will give me some gravel or even sell me some.

Even with the 50% water change the little tetras are still at the top of the tank.

It's hard because I want it to be 'fixed' right now but I just have to wait, and waiting sucks.

 

[dkpate]

Oh I understand all too well lol! you will be doing plenty of water changes in the next few weeks or so, depending on if you get the gravel or not. Do you have bubbles or anything in there? I have a lot of bubble wands in my tanks. Well, not the bettas but they don't like them lol. I wonder if they have enough oxygen? I am still a newbie so I don't know everything, YET! LOL! I am sure in the next few hours there will be people with more experience who will chime in with their suggestions. People on here are SUPER nice and have a lot of knowledge on anything to do with tanks and fish.
You are welcome for the responses. Like I said, I was in your boat a few weeks ago, and I couldn't wait for someone to give me some sort of answer!

 

[EasternCanuck]

*sigh*, is it OK to do another 50% change in the same day? I've just lost another 2 tetras, so I have only 2 left of the 8. The Rams have not come out form hiding.

My shrimp seem to be enjoying themselves though.

 

[dkpate]

You are treating your water right? Getting the chlorine and chloramine out? I would think it would be okay do do 2 water changes in one day. I wouldn't do them one after another but space them out. The tetras could have already had their gills burned by the ammonia at that could be another reason they were hanging out at the top.

 

[EasternCanuck]

Hi and many thanks for the frequent posts!

One more question ... if I have CO2 being injected into the water through a diffuser, can I ALSO hook up a pump with an air stone to add oxygen, or will the two cancel each other out?

 

[dkpate]

Well, that I can't help you with lol. I have no experience with the CO2. I have never used one. I only have filters and bubbles in my tank. You may be able to search articles on here though. Just use the search bar up on top. I will be getting off work here in about a half hour though, and I won't be on for about 8 hours lol. So I REALLY hope someone answers your questions about the CO2 and whatever else.

 

[Blueiz]

Hi and many thanks for the frequent posts!

One more question ... if I have CO2 being injected into the water through a diffuser, can I ALSO hook up a pump with an air stone to add oxygen, or will the two cancel each other out?

It would be pointless to run an air bubbler at the same time you are injecting CO2 as the agentation of the air bubbler will gas off the co2 that you are injecting . I highly reccomend turning the CO2 off until your tank is cycled, do as many water changes as needed to keep your ammonia and nitrite down as low as possible- preferably .25 or below.

If I remember correctly from your previous posts, you said that your PH was below 6, how are you testing that? I haven't been able to find a ph test kit that goes below six here. One good thing about having a low PH in your cycling tank is it does make the ammonia not as harmful as it would be if the PH was higher, harmful non the less though.

Good luck!

 

[cabezon]

I guess your LFS likes to sell fish. I would never recommend dropping a dozen fish into a tank, let alone one that wasn't cycled.

 

[EasternCanuck]

It would be pointless to run an air bubbler at the same time you are injecting CO2 as the agentation of the air bubbler will gas off the co2 that you are injecting . I highly reccomend turning the CO2 off until your tank is cycled, do as many water changes as needed to keep your ammonia and nitrite down as low as possible- preferably .25 or below.

If I remember correctly from your previous posts, you said that your PH was below 6, how are you testing that? I haven't been able to find a ph test kit that goes below six here. One good thing about having a low PH in your cycling tank is it does make the ammonia not as harmful as it would be if the PH was higher, harmful non the less though.

Good luck!

Hi,

Thank you for the info regarding the CO2 and O2. I figured they would kind of work against each other but thought I'd check. The forum description does say there are no 'dumb' questions. Though I am feeling quite stupid with my tank situation.

I say my PH is below 6 because my test strips go down to 6 but the colour comes out a much brighter yellow, which is off the chart, so I am assuming it is so.

I'm going to let my tank sit for quite some time before doing anything else to it, other than water changes. I'm also going to see if I can't get some soil form an established tank tomorrow, as previously mentioned, to see if that will help.

 

[Blueiz]

Get a liquid test kit for your PH, and other water parameters as well. Test strips are notoriously inaccurate .

The question regarding CO2 is a very valid one, I asked the same one when I first started with plants. It's better to ask and sorta feel silly, than to go blindly and really appear ignorant.

 

[EasternCanuck]

Well, I feel horrible but I guess that can be a good thing since it will mean I won't make this mistake again. Doesn't bring my fish back though.

I have only 2 Rams left, which surprises me as I thought they would be more finicky with the water. The yamato shrimp are still alive as well and seem to be quite happy.

I'll continue water changes for the 2 rams and see what happens. Nothing else will go in the tank until my levels drop down to 0 and I'm heading out to get a proper test kit today. I thought the strips would do the job but it seems, from advice given here, that they are a waste of money. $35. Ouch.

 

[JPKeenan]

Don't worry man, I think most of us rushed into things our first time out and it came to bite us in the rump. That's why I am here, had problems galore and found this site. It helped me immensely! Second time around I thought my tank was cycled but it wasn't. The third time was a charm (my daughter's tank).

I wouldn't add more than 3 (4 tops) fish at a time to a tank. Even then you'd have to give it a week or two for the bacteria to adjust to the new bio-load of the added fish.

I did a lot of the same "dumb" stuff, and have had the same type of "dumb" questions. Seeing a problem we have all gone through reminds us that we were not always as "wise" are we are now. Any "dumb" question that grants us knowledge and wisdom is not "dumb"

Keep up your water changes and let your bacteria catch up to your bio-load.

 

[EasternCanuck]

Thank you for that JPKeenan. I must say that thus far people have been very kind in speaking with me though I am sure they are also shaking their heads. I know I'm not the first one to make these error but I still feel like an idiot.

Ammonia levels are still up there in my tank and I'm about to do another water change.

Tried getting (buying even) some substrate from my LFS but they wouldn't do it. Tried selling me some chemicals to add to speed up the process but I figure I'll just wait it out rather than add more crap to my tank.

Thanks again.

 

[dkpate]

Good plan. Unless you can get your hands on some Seachems Prime. It will treat like 2500 gallons and it helps with the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I use it in all of my tanks now. Cheaper than buying Aquasafe or anything because it is more concentrated.
Don't worry, we have ALL been there at one time or another. I just tested my 20G today, and was the first time I have not had any ammonia! YAYY! I am soooo stoked that it has FINALLY decided to stop cycling after 5 weeks lol. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask any "dumb" questions. You know all your teachers always said "The only dumb question is the one you don't ask" LOL

 

[EasternCanuck]

Just uploaded a pic of my new tank (before the ammonia spike)

 

[Jackdempsey97]

i would buy a cheap 10 or 5 gallon tank and do a fisless cycle i had the same thing happen to me i listened to the store and put in fish after 2 days and most of them died so i bought a 30 dollar 5 gallon and kept my fish in there while i treated and cycled the water