Total Newbie Question - Aquarium Advice

Korwin · 07-03-2008, 10:43 PM

Hi there!

I'm kinda new to fish keeping, very newto the proper way to do things.

So my father in law got my three year old daughter two feeder goldfish for her birthday. Somehow I didn't kill them, and they've lasted over a year. They've gone from a bowl, to a 2 gallon, and now they're in a 10 gallon. One is 6 inches, the other is 4 inches. They're huge.

Now I want to get them in a decent size aquarium. I'm thinking a 20-30 gallon tank (I have to find a place for it). I've been reading like mad about cycling and plants and the proper way to do this.

But I was wondering, how well would 2 giant goldfish do in a tank with other fish? Will they eat little guys, like danios? Or would they just keep to themselves?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for alreading posting such awesome information. I've been learning SOOOO much.

**Zagz** · 07-03-2008, 10:53 PM

Welcome to AA. My recommendation for goldfish is 20 gals for the first fish and at least 10 gals each other fish. Generally goldfish should be kept with only other coldwater fish, not tropicals. I have never kept anything but dojo loaches with goldfish so I can't tell you if danios would be successful with goldies.

warped1 · 07-04-2008, 08:21 AM

You have to love those feeder fish. They are practically indestructible - except to the fish that is going to eat them.
The first thing I would recommend is making sure you understand how to set up and cycle a tank in preparation for the feeders. There are many useful articles on this site about fishless cycles and filtration. You can even Google for filtration and fishless cycle if you need other opinions. But everything you need to do this successfully is contained within this site through its articles and members.
The next thing you should do is familiarize yourself with the biological functioning of goldfish. They tend to make more of a demand on the biological and mechanical filtration then tropical fish. Their needs unfortunately has them labeled as a "dirty fish" because of the amount of strain they can put on a filtration system. And it is because of this that goldfish should just be kept with goldfish. But if you shop around you will see that goldfish come in a variety of shapes, sizes and color combination. My personal favorite is what some pet stores call a Fancy Tail Calico. So you can have variety in the tank.
Goldfish are a hardy fish. They prefer the cooler water temperatures but can adapt quickly to many temperature variations. They can live for quite a while (as you've come to realize) and are a fun fish for kids. I wish you luck with everything and if you got questions just ask. Also keep us posted on how it is going

blazeyreef · 07-04-2008, 08:31 AM

their are tons of cooler water species you can keep, like white mountain minnows, rosey barbs, well their are more I just have to think of them LOL
welcome to the site

Korwin · 07-04-2008, 01:17 PM

Thanks for the replies!

Warped, I have been reading up nonstop about cycling. This site has soooo many different angles on the process. I'm an environmental consultant and I deal primarily with water quality, so all this water chemistry is right up my alley.

And all this reading is exactly why I want to get more fish! I keep seeing pictures of the awesome tanks you guys keep. I've even been finding invertabrates kinda cute. So, I'll be asking a ton more questions once I get a tank set up for cycling. Thanks again!

warped1 · 07-04-2008, 06:08 PM

No problem - we aim to please. The folks here helped me out immeasurably (I know I drove them nuts with my questions) and if I can help someone else it is only because I've learned through them and want to pass the knowledge on.
Keep reading and asking questions. As the old saying goes "Knowledge is power" and the power is to have and maintain a beautiful tank for you and your family.

jsoong · 07-04-2008, 07:37 PM

You already have a cycled tank, so you don't really need to cycle a new one from scratch. If you transfer everything from the 10 gal to the new tank, and not add any new fish, you should have no problems. Run the 10's filter with the new tank's filter for 6-8 weeks until the new filter is fully seeded & you should be all set. You would at most have a mini-cycle for a day or 2 doing this.

Having said all that, I don't think a 20 or 30 gal is appropriate for those goldfish. The 10/20 gal "rule" is for fancy goldfish, and you have single tailed commons. To live to their full potential (12-24" long & 10-15 years) commons really belong in a good size pond. A minimum tank size for fish your size would be a 40 gal breeder (3 foot long shallower tank with bigger footprint so the fish have room to swim). A 50 gal breeder (4 foot long) or a 6 foot tank (90-120 gal) would be even better.

As for companions, commons will eat most anything that will fit into their mouths, and they are fast to boot .... so most small tropicals won't last long (plus there are also food, temp & other incompatibilities.) Although you can add a school of white cloud, they will quickly become goldie snacks unless you have lots of room & hiding places for the smaller fish (and a big enough school to give a bit of protection in numbers). Better tank mates would be other goldfish - preferable smaller single tails like shubunkins or hardy double tails like metallic fantails or moors. But then you do need a BIG tank to keep a school of golds. Other fish that had been kept sucessfully with commons includes dwarf plecos & hillstream loaches .... although there are also stories of disasters. My suggestion if you want to mix golds with other species is to do lots of research, and keep in mind that you have big common golds, not fancies ... lots of fish kept with fancies won't do well with a big commet.

Sorry to throw cold water on your plans, jsut trying to prevent trouble & heartaches down the road.

Korwin · 07-07-2008, 08:35 AM

jsoong,

Not a problem. That's why I am asking you guys upfront so I don't make those kinds of mistakes. I appreciate the help. Thank you.

And as far as tank size, YIKES!! I had no idea those little goldfish could get so big. Well, Maybe I can move them to thier own bigger tank, and turn the 10 gal into a tropical tank.

Thanks again!

JohnPaul · 07-07-2008, 09:48 AM

If you aren't comfortable with the idea of setting up a very large aquarium for these fish, then the other thing you might want to consider (depending upon how your three year old would react) would be to exchange the two goldfish for something else that would fit better within a tank size you would like to have in your house. Whether you could pull this off or not depends a lot upon how attached your 3-year old is to the current fish versus her attachment to the idea of "fish in general" or "pretty fish" or whatever else.

07-03-2008, 10:43 PM	#1
Korwin Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 17 Images: 2	Total Newbie Question Hi there! I'm kinda new to fish keeping, very newto the proper way to do things. So my father in law got my three year old daughter two feeder goldfish for her birthday. Somehow I didn't kill them, and they've lasted over a year. They've gone from a bowl, to a 2 gallon, and now they're in a 10 gallon. One is 6 inches, the other is 4 inches. They're huge. Now I want to get them in a decent size aquarium. I'm thinking a 20-30 gallon tank (I have to find a place for it). I've been reading like mad about cycling and plants and the proper way to do this. But I was wondering, how well would 2 giant goldfish do in a tank with other fish? Will they eat little guys, like danios? Or would they just keep to themselves? Thanks in advance, and thanks for alreading posting such awesome information. I've been learning SOOOO much.

07-03-2008, 10:53 PM	#2
Zagz Aquarium Advice Addict Community Admin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 11,332 Images: 92	Welcome to AA. My recommendation for goldfish is 20 gals for the first fish and at least 10 gals each other fish. Generally goldfish should be kept with only other coldwater fish, not tropicals. I have never kept anything but dojo loaches with goldfish so I can't tell you if danios would be successful with goldies. __________________ ----------- My Profile Page My tank & fish photos. Have you voted for AA today? Like the advice or comments someone gave you? Show your appreciation with the reputation button!

07-04-2008, 08:31 AM	#4
blazeyreef Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 1,579 Images: 1	their are tons of cooler water species you can keep, like white mountain minnows, rosey barbs, well their are more I just have to think of them LOL welcome to the site __________________ Houston "Face Trials with Smiles"-Porter Ellett *My aquariums-3gall betta, 5.5gall nanoreef, 10gall planted,* *29gall planted* *"We are nothing until we make ourselves somthing"* *CTR*

07-04-2008, 07:37 PM	#7
jsoong Aquarium Advice Addict Community Mentor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 1,641	You already have a cycled tank, so you don't really need to cycle a new one from scratch. If you transfer everything from the 10 gal to the new tank, and not add any new fish, you should have no problems. Run the 10's filter with the new tank's filter for 6-8 weeks until the new filter is fully seeded & you should be all set. You would at most have a mini-cycle for a day or 2 doing this. Having said all that, I don't think a 20 or 30 gal is appropriate for those goldfish. The 10/20 gal "rule" is for fancy goldfish, and you have single tailed commons. To live to their full potential (12-24" long & 10-15 years) commons really belong in a good size pond. A minimum tank size for fish your size would be a 40 gal breeder (3 foot long shallower tank with bigger footprint so the fish have room to swim). A 50 gal breeder (4 foot long) or a 6 foot tank (90-120 gal) would be even better. As for companions, commons will eat most anything that will fit into their mouths, and they are fast to boot .... so most small tropicals won't last long (plus there are also food, temp & other incompatibilities.) Although you can add a school of white cloud, they will quickly become goldie snacks unless you have lots of room & hiding places for the smaller fish (and a big enough school to give a bit of protection in numbers). Better tank mates would be other goldfish - preferable smaller single tails like shubunkins or hardy double tails like metallic fantails or moors. But then you do need a BIG tank to keep a school of golds. Other fish that had been kept sucessfully with commons includes dwarf plecos & hillstream loaches .... although there are also stories of disasters. My suggestion if you want to mix golds with other species is to do lots of research, and keep in mind that you have big common golds, not fancies ... lots of fish kept with fancies won't do well with a big commet. Sorry to throw cold water on your plans, jsut trying to prevent trouble & heartaches down the road. __________________ 75 gal FW with 30 gal DIY wet/dry/sump. 9 fancy golds, 1 hillstream loaches, 1 rubber-lip pleco (C. thomasi), 3 SAEs, planted.

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07-04-2008, 08:21 AM	#3
warped1 Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Philly, Pa. Posts: 306	You have to love those feeder fish. They are practically indestructible - except to the fish that is going to eat them. The first thing I would recommend is making sure you understand how to set up and cycle a tank in preparation for the feeders. There are many useful articles on this site about fishless cycles and filtration. You can even Google for filtration and fishless cycle if you need other opinions. But everything you need to do this successfully is contained within this site through its articles and members. The next thing you should do is familiarize yourself with the biological functioning of goldfish. They tend to make more of a demand on the biological and mechanical filtration then tropical fish. Their needs unfortunately has them labeled as a "dirty fish" because of the amount of strain they can put on a filtration system. And it is because of this that goldfish should just be kept with goldfish. But if you shop around you will see that goldfish come in a variety of shapes, sizes and color combination. My personal favorite is what some pet stores call a Fancy Tail Calico. So you can have variety in the tank. Goldfish are a hardy fish. They prefer the cooler water temperatures but can adapt quickly to many temperature variations. They can live for quite a while (as you've come to realize) and are a fun fish for kids. I wish you luck with everything and if you got questions just ask. Also keep us posted on how it is going

07-04-2008, 01:17 PM	#5
Korwin Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 17 Images: 2	Thanks for the replies! Warped, I have been reading up nonstop about cycling. This site has soooo many different angles on the process. I'm an environmental consultant and I deal primarily with water quality, so all this water chemistry is right up my alley. And all this reading is exactly why I want to get more fish! I keep seeing pictures of the awesome tanks you guys keep. I've even been finding invertabrates kinda cute. So, I'll be asking a ton more questions once I get a tank set up for cycling. Thanks again!

07-04-2008, 06:08 PM	#6
warped1 Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Philly, Pa. Posts: 306	No problem - we aim to please. The folks here helped me out immeasurably (I know I drove them nuts with my questions) and if I can help someone else it is only because I've learned through them and want to pass the knowledge on. Keep reading and asking questions. As the old saying goes "Knowledge is power" and the power is to have and maintain a beautiful tank for you and your family.

07-07-2008, 08:35 AM	#8
Korwin Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 17 Images: 2	jsoong, Not a problem. That's why I am asking you guys upfront so I don't make those kinds of mistakes. I appreciate the help. Thank you. And as far as tank size, YIKES!! I had no idea those little goldfish could get so big. Well, Maybe I can move them to thier own bigger tank, and turn the 10 gal into a tropical tank. Thanks again!

07-07-2008, 09:48 AM	#9
JohnPaul Aquarium Advice FINatic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 668	If you aren't comfortable with the idea of setting up a very large aquarium for these fish, then the other thing you might want to consider (depending upon how your three year old would react) would be to exchange the two goldfish for something else that would fit better within a tank size you would like to have in your house. Whether you could pull this off or not depends a lot upon how attached your 3-year old is to the current fish versus her attachment to the idea of "fish in general" or "pretty fish" or whatever else.