Vacuuming out BB??

[Fresh2o]

while in a cycle when canI replace the filter cartridges on an over the top filter they been on for a month with an occasional dip in the water
is it better to dip the new cartridges in bucket with old tank water or the prime bucket.

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Keep the old cartridges as long as possible. Treating the new cartridges will do nothing for them. If the cartridges are clogging that frequently then perhaps you are over feeding the fish and/or there are too many fish in the tank.

 

[RABENA]

you know my son said the same thing too much food in the tank

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[Fresh2o]

you know my son said the same thing too much food in the tank

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It's okay to skip a day or two when it comes to feeding in most cases. Exceptions would include fry and hard to feed/delicate specimens.
I think that is the problem.

 

[RABENA]

I have about 10 Fry's in there from the guppies.
I got 8 med.Rosie's that the frogs are picking off one at a time
4 Cory's
1 beta
2 albino clawed frogs 6mon old
in 20long

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[sam180]

It's possible (even with using old tank water for any washing) that this killed off bacteria. Just speculating here. I've done that where I have had the impeller block just after cleaning and in breaking the filter down twice somehow caused a mini-cycle.

That's partially why I bought a second filter. I plan on putting them on separate maintenance rotations once they are both seeded to prevent that very issue. It just seems ridiculously difficult to get the initial BB to grow.

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[Coryluv]

Hi sam180. Each tank is a little world unto itself.

Here's just my opinion. Since you have fish to consider, keep using the Prime for insurance as well as water changes to keep the fish healthy and comfortable. I'm not sure it slows things down that much, but when cycling fish in, the levels should not be allowed to be too high for the comfort and safety of the fish. The cycle may take longer overall. So what? The goal is healthy fish. I think your intuition is right on track about more water changes to lower that ammonia. I also think that with a new tank the gravel can be left without vacuuming, but as was already said, it really won't make much of a diff. You have a lot of places for the beneficial bacteria to reside in your filters.

Best wishes. You'll do fine.

 

[sam180]

Hi sam180. Each tank is a little world unto itself.

Here's just my opinion. Since you have fish to consider, keep using the Prime for insurance as well as water changes to keep the fish healthy and comfortable. I'm not sure it slows things down that much, but when cycling fish in, the levels should not be allowed to be too high for the comfort and safety of the fish. The cycle may take longer overall. So what? The goal is healthy fish. I think your intuition is right on track about more water changes to lower that ammonia. I also think that with a new tank the gravel can be left without vacuuming, but as was already said, it really won't make much of a diff. You have a lot of places for the beneficial bacteria to reside in your filters.

Best wishes. You'll do fine.

Yeah, thanks for the support. lol I'm probably just being impatient. Several sources I've read say 2 months is common and I'm not quite there yet, so I'll just keep waiting. I did a 50% pwc today and got the ammonia down to about 1ppm and will probably do another one in the next day or two to reduce it further. All my fish still look healthy and happy, probably thanks to Prime. As for vacuuming the gravel, I've actually pulled up quite a bit of waste off the bottom of the tank. I may be overfeeding a little, but I normally don't give them more than they can eat within 5 minutes or so.

 

[Delapool]

That's partially why I bought a second filter. I plan on putting them on separate maintenance rotations once they are both seeded to prevent that very issue. It just seems ridiculously difficult to get the initial BB to grow.

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I think it's an excellent idea. I've got basically 2 filters going and seems fairly bullet proof. You can experiment, etc in one filter and the other is backup. That's what I do anyways

The other to try is the bottled bacteria products. I've used them and thought it helped however in reading I'd say 2/3 of posts found no benefit. Pretty hit and miss at best.

 

[sam180]

I think it's an excellent idea. I've got basically 2 filters going and seems fairly bullet proof. You can experiment, etc in one filter and the other is backup. That's what I do anyways

The other to try is the bottled bacteria products. I've used them and thought it helped however in reading I'd say 2/3 of posts found no benefit. Pretty hit and miss at best.

I've been dosing the tank for the past week with Seachem Stability per the instructions, should finish the bottle tomorrow or the next day. No change or any sign of nitrites yet. I also tried Tetra SafeStart a few weeks ago with zero effect. Feels like I'm just dumping money into the water. I had a feeling that would be the result, I guess I was just holding out hope that I would have gotten one of the good bottles with bacteria that's actually still alive.

 

[Delapool]

Sorry missed the post. Can't think of much else to speed up except buying some media.

 

[Fishperson]

To adress a few comments on this thread:

1. The aquarium hobby has many different opinions. Because there are so many aspects and possibilities it is constantly evolving, and some people keep up with this and some don't. The thing is, if it works, then it works. If BBradbury doesn't vacuum detritus from his tank but his tanks are successful (which I know is true) then that will work fine for you too. If others do vacuum their detritus, and it works well, then you can too. I have to say that either way your tank will be clean. It is helpful to do a gravel vacuum at least once a month because it does prevent ammonia buildup, but BBradbury is right that you can take out that ammonia after it dissolves if you would like.

2. This hobby is a science, except maybe for the aquascaping part (but even then there is quite literally a ratio for making your planted tank look good ). So you need to think like this: If you have no nitrites and no new nitrates (just those from your tap) then the ammonia isn't being broken down at any noticeable rate. If you've been cycling for 6 weeks then something is wrong. Are there are any plants in the tank that could be sucking up nitrite/nitrate? I don't see why else you wouldn't have any yet. Also, have you had a bacterial bloom yet?

3. This is the main reason why I don't like fish in cycles. I know it's bad for fish if done wrong, but somehow that doesn't irk me. I think the real problem is that if your cycle, for whatever reason, stops, you end up with a tank full of fish without any means of cleaning up after them. If this were fishless you could examine the tank much more thoroughly and try other methods. Again, not blaming you, just saying that in the future fishless might be a better option.

 

[Delapool]

Yes - must confess to not being a big fan of fish in cycles. If the cycle takes a long time or fish get an infection on top of, it's all stress on the fish.

I know others are completely ok with them and I have plenty of media now so don't have to worry about cycling another tank from scratch.

 

[Coryluv]

Yeah, thanks for the support. lol I'm probably just being impatient. Several sources I've read say 2 months is common and I'm not quite there yet, so I'll just keep waiting. I did a 50% pwc today and got the ammonia down to about 1ppm and will probably do another one in the next day or two to reduce it further. All my fish still look healthy and happy, probably thanks to Prime. As for vacuuming the gravel, I've actually pulled up quite a bit of waste off the bottom of the tank. I may be overfeeding a little, but I normally don't give them more than they can eat within 5 minutes or so.

Yes, if you are overfeeding, you should siphon the excess out of there. It is so easy to overfeed. When I had a low fish load, I actually counted the number of flakes I put in. You can also try skipping, say, every third day. Many routinely skip feeding one day a week.

You are on the right track.

As to bacteria in a bottle products, Tetra Safe Start is probably good when it leaves the factory, but there are many things in the distribution chain that can go wrong and render it ineffective. I like Seachem products but have no experience with Stability so I can't comment. The one bacteria in a bottle product I would recommend, and I've bought it as well as some other Dr Tim's products, is his One and Only. Dr. Tim is an expert on nitrifying bacteria and his products have a good reputation. His company is Dr Tim's Aquatics. You can google him and learn more about him.

That said, I'd skip the bacteria in a bottle entirely. Just keep up with water changes, refrain from over feeding, use Prime for insurance for your fish. Be sure to keep your tank plenty aerated. That will help keep your fish comfortable, too.

Test daily for ammonia and nitrite. Either going over .25 ppm calls for a water change IMO.

Test weekly for nitrate until the nitrite starts to rise (it may not rise much using the Prime -- anything more than that clear bright aqua color is nitrite -- be sure to observe the test as it purples up until it stops. The more nitrite the faster and deeper it will go.) Then test more often for nitrate.

Once you have 0 ammonia, and 0 nitrite, and 5 ppm or more nitrate (and be sure to vigorously shake bottle #2 or it will never read more than 5 ppm) it should be safe to transition to more normal care like weekly 20% or more water changes and only adding Prime during water changes or if something causes a mini cycle (during which you would also step up your water changes).

I hope I haven't overwhelmed you with this additional information. It is just my opinion and not the only way to get where you want to go, but it is a way to get there as safely as I know.

 

[sam180]

To adress a few comments on this thread:

1. The aquarium hobby has many different opinions. Because there are so many aspects and possibilities it is constantly evolving, and some people keep up with this and some don't. The thing is, if it works, then it works. If BBradbury doesn't vacuum detritus from his tank but his tanks are successful (which I know is true) then that will work fine for you too. If others do vacuum their detritus, and it works well, then you can too. I have to say that either way your tank will be clean. It is helpful to do a gravel vacuum at least once a month because it does prevent ammonia buildup, but BBradbury is right that you can take out that ammonia after it dissolves if you would like.

2. This hobby is a science, except maybe for the aquascaping part (but even then there is quite literally a ratio for making your planted tank look good ). So you need to think like this: If you have no nitrites and no new nitrates (just those from your tap) then the ammonia isn't being broken down at any noticeable rate. If you've been cycling for 6 weeks then something is wrong. Are there are any plants in the tank that could be sucking up nitrite/nitrate? I don't see why else you wouldn't have any yet. Also, have you had a bacterial bloom yet?

Every water change I've done has included a gravel vacuum to keep the waste cleaned off the bottom of the tank. I have 6 platies and 4 guppies that contribute more than their share of it, too. As for plants, I added a single small Amazon Sword and 5 very small Water Wisterias into the tank about 2-3 weeks ago. As for the bacterial bloom, I guess I don't follow you. Isn't that the nitrifying bacteria that I've been waiting for all along? I've noticed the tank was cloudy for a few days on two separate occasions - the first was when I initially set the tank up, the second was a few weeks later after a water change.

That said, I'd skip the bacteria in a bottle entirely. Just keep up with water changes, refrain from over feeding, use Prime for insurance for your fish. Be sure to keep your tank plenty aerated. That will help keep your fish comfortable, too.

I hope I haven't overwhelmed you with this additional information. It is just my opinion and not the only way to get where you want to go, but it is a way to get there as safely as I know.

Yeah, the sad part is that I kinda knew/expected the bacteria in a bottle to be a waste of money, yet I let my impatience get the better of me and decided to give it a try. Wishing now I hadn't, of course. As for aeration in the tank, I have three separate airstones spaced fairly evenly throughout the tank and both of my canister filters provide a good amount of current and water surface agitation.

I've been researching as much as I can and trying to follow the advice I've been given. I'll just keep waiting. If I pass the two month mark and still nothing, then I'll really start looking around for some established media from someone. It's not overwhelming at all, just frustrating at this point. I won't be giving up though, by any means.

 

[Fishperson]

Every water change I've done has included a gravel vacuum to keep the waste cleaned off the bottom of the tank. I have 6 platies and 4 guppies that contribute more than their share of it, too. As for plants, I added a single small Amazon Sword and 5 very small Water Wisterias into the tank about 2-3 weeks ago. As for the bacterial bloom, I guess I don't follow you. Isn't that the nitrifying bacteria that I've been waiting for all along? I've noticed the tank was cloudy for a few days on two separate occasions - the first was when I initially set the tank up, the second was a few weeks later after a water change.



Yeah, the sad part is that I kinda knew/expected the bacteria in a bottle to be a waste of money, yet I let my impatience get the better of me and decided to give it a try. Wishing now I hadn't, of course. As for aeration in the tank, I have three separate airstones spaced fairly evenly throughout the tank and both of my canister filters provide a good amount of current and water surface agitation.

I've been researching as much as I can and trying to follow the advice I've been given. I'll just keep waiting. If I pass the two month mark and still nothing, then I'll really start looking around for some established media from someone. It's not overwhelming at all, just frustrating at this point. I won't be giving up though, by any means.

The plants could be partially contributing to the lack of nitrite but then again that doesn't really help much I guess.

The bacterial bloom is when your water gets really cloudy, like someone poured half a gallon of milk into your tank. Has that ever happened yet? It's because another species of bacteria that is far more common but far less efficient comes along and takes care of some ammonia, but then the good nitrifying bacteria come along and take over from there. At least that's my understanding of it. Has that happened yet?

 

[Delapool]

I did wonder if seeing nitrites had just been missed (seems to happen in a few threads) but then nitrates should be increasing so still thinking.

 

[RABENA]

yes it has gotten to that level. does that mean its almost over the filter cartridges on my tank are filled with gunk
in that thick milky stage I should just leave everything ALONE

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[sam180]

The plants could be partially contributing to the lack of nitrite but then again that doesn't really help much I guess.

The bacterial bloom is when your water gets really cloudy, like someone poured half a gallon of milk into your tank. Has that ever happened yet? It's because another species of bacteria that is far more common but far less efficient comes along and takes care of some ammonia, but then the good nitrifying bacteria come along and take over from there. At least that's my understanding of it. Has that happened yet?

Hard to say, really. Like I mentioned previously I have had a couple of instances where I had some cloudiness in the water, but I don't think they were blooms. The first was right after I set the tank up and it was probably just particles from the gravel substrate that hadn't settled yet. The second was right after a water change and I just figured I had stirred up the same particles off the bottom of the tank.

 

[Fishperson]

Then you probably haven't had one yet. That's very strange. I would ask someone for some used media.

 

[sam180]

Then you probably haven't had one yet. That's very strange. I would ask someone for some used media.

I'm getting close to that level of desperation to be honest. If I get to the 8 week mark and still nothing, then I'll start hunting.