Which "cleaners" eat what?

[trennamw]

Just trying to think if I have the right blend of cleaner uppers planned for my 29 gallon and realized I don't know who cleans what. Nope not trying to avoid tank maintenance, I just am enough of a nerd I like the idea of balance and compliments.

And I just notice a general confusion about who cleans what ...

As i understand it, Cories and loaches are good about getting food that falls to the bottom. Some loaches eat snails. Snails will clean algae. Ghost shrimp will eat poop.

And of course bacteria eat ammonia then nitrite, and plants eat nitrate.

Anyone have a comprehensive list for the sake of all the beginners?

And if I have some cories, dwarf loaches, ghost shrimp, and a mystery snail or two, am I in good shape along with good feeding and cleaning habits

 

[venymae]

otos eat algae and micro build up I believe.

Plecos eat fallen food and algae

 

[trennamw]

And, is it a myth that some cleaners don't contribute to bioload? Aqua advisor seems to think it's a myth, though one LFS tells me I don't have to count a few snails and ghost shrimp.

 

[venymae]

yes it is a myth. Everything contributes a little to the bio load, everything poops and exhales, just some more than others! Some snail make minimal waste, as do some shrimp. Some snail are poop machines though.

 

[trennamw]

I guess it's less whether something has an output, than whether something else uses that output as input in a similar proportion.

Which snails are pooping machines? I don't think I have room for a Pleco and hear Otos are delicate, and I don't think loaches or cories are algae eaters?

 

[venymae]

So, I've only kept otos once, but I found them to be hardy little buggers, and I LOVED them. They eat a lot of bio-film so they do need/prefer a mature tank. They also need to be in a small group, so get a couple if you do. But they are fun to watch, very peaceful, and oh I just like them a lot.

Um other options. I'm not sure on the snails- my ramshorns don't poop a whole lot, but I do notice it a bit. I've heard other people complain about snails pooping, but I'm not very knowledgeable on species.

One pleco would be ok in a 29 gallon. They are nocturnal and have a habit of being very reclusive (I see Theodors nose and tip of tail only. Ever. Unless a turn on the light in the middle of the night. He's out then, and completely freaks, so I don't do it often!) they also need driftwood and veggies.

Shrimp are super fun too, but I find they don't clean the glass very well. And most fish eat/harass them. lol

 

[trennamw]

I have a lot of teeny tiny fish. Nobody's adult size is over 2". I'll likely put the cories in last so I have time to consider a group of something else. There will be tiny tiny loaches on the bottom (sidthimunki or something like that), so the other dudes down there need to be super peaceful.

 

[Kendallfish]

Hi Trennamw, ive had experience with plecos, corycat, and an apple snail. First of all, plecos clean algae on glass, which is why most people like them. But they need a big space, and the bigger tank theyre kept in, they grow untill they outgrow it. Cory cats are very active and will eat algae on gravel and decorations, but not glass, because they're bottom feeders. Apple snails (which are sold as Mystery snails in stores) can feed on glass, gravel, plants, etc; but they poop alot. if you do a full tank scrubbing and theres no more algae, you can give them slices of veggies like cucumbers, squash, zucchini, or root veggies. My snail loves them. Hope this helps!

 

[trennamw]

Thanks! I talked about it at LFS today, picking up some danios and 2 mystery snails (wow they do poop a lot, and that's just in the little gallon container where they are drip acclimating).

Based on a few things (current from the power head, my own preferences, and budget), the LFS recommended I skip the cories, get a few snails, and some little loaches later. They also had a rubber lipped something, that they said wouldn't get much bigger than it is now, I didn't like it much so I didn't pay a lot of attention. They said Otos are a little more delicate and I'm new to conditioning to get KH and GH up, so I'm thinking something delicate isn't great right now.

Thanks for the help! I'm sure I'll change my mind more before the tank is fully stocked.

 

[venymae]

I got 6 otos today!!!! I am excited. I'll let you know how it goes. I don't mess with the water pH at all. Call me lucky our well water is super hard but, my pH stays around 7.8-8.0 in my mature tanks. The otos are actually in with Mr.Betta (yikes!) but seem to be very happy. That tank has a nice light film of algae on the side glass, which is why I chose it. lol

 

[venymae]

They also had a rubber lipped something, that they said wouldn't get much bigger than it is now, I didn't like it much so I didn't pay a lot of attention.

That would most likely be a rubber lip pleco, and they get to be 5" like most smaller plecos

 

[azmodan]

Ghost shrimp will eat poop.

Shrimp do not eat poop, only a gravel vac will do that.

In terms of algae typically the best smaller cleaners (appropriate for a 29g) are otos, Amano shrimp (a larger shrimp that typically does well with smaller community fish), nerite snails and Siamese algae eaters (sometimes hard to find, as you need to get the correct species). Otos (and shrimp) do best in mature tanks and are often quite fragile due to how they are collected in the wild. Amano shrimp are also terrific scavengers of leftover food.

 

[trennamw]

More good info thanks!

Petsmart always tells me ghost shrimp eat poop, and I swear I've seen them do it. Again my intent isn't to avoid cleaning. I vac and wc weekly (more right now as I'm learning the correct amount of food). I'm a huge nerd and like the idea of a full circle ecosystem in there, even though I have to intervene by doing cleaning and by giving the bottom feeders sinking pellets.

I have water that is practically distilled ... GH and KH are below 0.2 ppm or 0.1 degrees. So I've been learning how to condition it and am concerned any inconsistency might hurt an Oto. I do test the water before it goes back in the tank but still.

Looks like I'm already overstocked for a Pleco, I'll consider the Amani shrimp if I end up with more algae than the snails can handle. And I'll probably go with loaches and no cories, the LFS suggested a little loach (that isn't so expensive as the dwarf chain loach) that should enjoy the current more than cories do.

 

[cichlidthinker]

do shrimp eat poop really ? this i find interesting lol

 

[cichlidthinker]

do get a bristle nose pleco instead of the common kind that can get up to 2 feet, bristle nose pleco only gets up to 6-7 inches

 

[trennamw]

do shrimp eat poop really ? this i find interesting lol

I don't know. I could be fully mistaken. But I know in New Orleans I heard shrimp and crawfish referred to as "the excrement eating cockroaches of the sea."

Maybe it's more like chickens ... Chickens will dig through cow patties for bugs after a few days. They aren't actually eating it and they wouldn't touch feces of an animal that isn't an herbivore.

When I did have ghost shrimp last they sure appeared to. Followed the snails around eating those tiny black dots that the snails were leaving, right after the snail left them.

Even if some species do I'm sure they require other food too.

 

[trennamw]

Ok I did a little research (very little as you can see by the time between posts). Looks like at least some shrimp do pick through fish waste a little to get the bits the fish didn't digest fully. So they scatter it in tiny particles.

Which I find geekily awesome. I've always loved this farm I read about where they fence cows in a spot for a few days and then move the cows and put chickens in that spot a few days later, after dung beetles had time to arrive and lay eggs. The chickens eat dung beetle larvae and scatter the manure, so it's more useable by the grass, and add their own poop which has a slightly different benefit to the grass.

I would presume there's some similar benefit to the aquarium in having a creature break up the fish waste, even if it isn't eating it.

 

[absolutangel04]

A quick note, be cautious with plecos. The common ones get HUGE and many of the smaller ones have fairly specific dietary needs. Also, common plecos really only eat algae when they are younger because they are actually omnivores. Bristlenose plecos do best with some drift wood in their diet, and clown plecos need it.
The pitbull pleco, rubberlip pleco, and bristlenose pleco are all smaller plecos that will generally do well in a community setting and eat algae for their whole lives. Typically, they just eat the green algae that grows on your glass. I still suggest a bot of driftwood for any pleco though. Even just a small bit is ok, so they have it if they need it.
Nerite snails will eat the hard algae that gets stuck on ornaments ect. They are the only species I have seen scrape algae off glass once it has gotten stuck on. They have a smaller bioload than the mystery snails, but they also tend to leave little white eggs crusted on the glass, and that can be a bit annoying. They don't actually reproduce in freshwater though, so no excess snails!
Apple snails (including the mystery snail) are not exclusive algae eaters and tend to do a pretty poor job of it. They will eat fallen food and whatnot, but have a significant bioload for their size (as you have now seen firsthand). Also, they will eat algae wafers and sinking pellets and blanched vegetables.
Cories also need some meat in their diet and should be fed sinking food to make sure they get enough to eat. They will certainly eat flakes as well though, and some are better at snatching food up before it falls than others are. they do not eat algae, and need some meaty substance in their diet.
Loaches are similar to cories. Most common loaches (clown, zebra, yo-yo, angelicus) will eat snails. They typically leave alone larger snails though. I have zebra loaches in with nerite snails and they have lived harmoniously for about 2 years. But, smaller snails will be eaten. I breed ramshorns in a different tank and then dump them in with the loaches. They enjoy a variety of food, and make sure they get something that sinks and not just fallen flakes. The kuhli loach is generally considered snail safe because it's mouth is too small for eating most snails. That said, there are stories of them grabbing a snail every once in awhile.
Amano shrimp will eat algae, including hair algae. They will also eat flakes. Mine will come out and steal flakes while they are falling.
Chinese algae eaters only eat algae when young, after that they prefer meatier foods and also get an attitude with many other fish, so be cautious of them. They are very commonly sold as "algae eaters" or "sucker fish" and people end up with more than they bargained for.
Ghost shrimp will eat flakes and whatnot, but are not big into algae. The bioload on shrimp is negligible.
If there is more you need to know, feel free to ask about specifics. It is great to see somebody who doesn't expect the "clean up crew" to actually do all the cleaning.

 

[trennamw]

Thank you for all that Angel! That's exactly the sort of summary I was looking for. And thanks especially for understanding that I'm not trying to avoid cleaning, I'm just really curious.

I do have one question - does anyone eat diatoms? Especially a someone a betta might be ok with, at least for a little while? His tank is super yucky with brown algae, I know everyone said leave it and it'll go away ... It did completely flake off the ornaments (where it first grew) but now it's going gangbusters on the glass. I keep reading "once the silica is gone" but I used sand in there, and I don't know much about much bit it seems to me there'd be tons of silica in sand.

Betta Bob, in his little tank, does seem more peaceful than his predecessor who bit the snail's antennae off. Also that pair was in a 1 gallon back before I knew better. I'm very tempted to drop my smaller snail in there under close supervision for a little while, then put him back in the big tank when it's cleaner. Those snails are definitely more "dirty" than a betta, I learned that the hard way.

 

[azmodan]

Nerite snails are fantastic diatom eaters.