while I'm on the soap box

[dax29]

While I'm online now I'd like to share my experinces with information and advice gathered on tropical fish keeping.

My lfs people are long time tropical fish owners and they have many tanks at home. The guy that runs the store is in his mid-30s and, according to some of his classmates, has owned fish since he was in high school. One of the workers in the store has owned fish for a long time and she currently maintains several tanks at home. Another worker there has many tanks at home and also maintains tanks around town for local businesses (doctors and lawyers offices mainly). My wife also has a cousin that worked at the big aquarium at Monteray, CA on Cannery Row and sells tropical fish, owns many aquariums, and runs an aquarium maintenance service in Raleigh, NC. I get info from him too. These people seem knowledgeable, but what I read here and in other places is contradictory to what they say, sometimes.

I guess what I'm getting at is, there are lots of places for information on keeping tropical fish. There are lots of people with different experiences and different opinions and different styles, some are minimalists with their tanks and some push the limit on stocking. I think common sense, trial and error, and good advice along the way make us better fish keepers. There is a lot of variability in all those parameters that get us to the point that we feel comfortable about keeping fish. I still ask a lot of questions and I tend to question things I read and hear, that is my nature. I like to do my own research while asking people questions about how they would go about it. I still do my own though. I imagine that I will continue to ask questions for years concerning the keeping of tropical fish, and I imagine it will take me some time to experience many of the fish and fish-related problems involved with the hobby. I guess I would rather experience a situation than take someone's word about it.

Why did I post this, I guess because I have seen, heard and read so many things in the last several months that I felt the urge to post my thoughts on fish keeping advice and information.

I do feel that the advice I've received on this site has been some of the most sound advice to which I've had access and I've used it more than other sources.

 

[Guest]

What kind of info?

 

[dax29]

Information regarding stocking fish, diseased fish, and fish compatibility.

 

[Billsgate]

I couldn't agree more on the good advice we get here
There are probably as many opinions about keeping fish and taking care of them as there are aquarists. But that is also part of what makes it interesting, to hear everyones opinion and pick up a thing or 2 that you will use yourself

 

[lyquidphyre]

I agree with you totally.

One thing you do have to keep in mind though when it comes to people who have kept fish for years and years.. sometimes, and this is true for anything thing, people learn how to do things when they started started years and years and years ago and if it works for them they pass it on, even tho it might be "outdated" or "primative"

Because in a lot of respects fish keeping is like a science, and science is always changing/adding new information

 

[jersysman]

I agree with you totally.

One thing you do have to keep in mind though when it comes to people who have kept fish for years and years.. sometimes, and this is true for anything thing, people learn how to do things when they started started years and years and years ago and if it works for them they pass it on, even tho it might be "outdated" or "primative"

Because in a lot of respects fish keeping is like a science, and science is always changing/adding new information

I absolutely agree with this statement. I had kept fish 20 years ago and back then it was get the tank put water in it, let it sit for a few days and then stock it. I never heard of cycling a tank until I decided to get a tank again and found sites such as this one. Everything evolves and that is why it is important to try to stay up. For instance, when I started out, UGF were the way to go. Nearly everyone had one and if you didn't then you were behind the times. I can understand that though. At that time, that was probably the best way to have a biological filter. In those days, though, I never heard of a biological filter.

What I am trying to say is that things have gotten better and more informative in the hobby. I am sure that they will continue to improve as well.

 

[Jchillin]

Nice thought Dax, it's amazing how many theories and practices are out there. I've also come to the realization that the only absolute science is math. All the other sciences are continually adapting as new discoveries are made.

Some of the basics have not changed. Dedication and perserverance are absolutely essential. And a little patience doesn't hurt either.

 

[greenmaji]

It seems like there are too many variables in some cases for everyones experiences to even be close to the same. I think this is the source of alot of the conflicting opinions in this hobby.

 

[dax29]

I appreciate the discussion. I couldn't get back to the computer until now so I haven't been able to reply. I just don't think there are any clear-cut rules with this hobby except that you take care of your fish the best you can. Everyone likes different fish, different stocking levels, different gravel, different filters and so on. I also believe individual fish of the same species act differently. I've got angelfish in 2 tanks. The one in the black tank is afraid of nothing and will accept food out of my hand. The oak tank has one the same size and that fish would be scared from food by an oto. I do think that some generalities can be made for certain species and I believe them. I think red-tailed sharks and CAEs are mean. I've seen this myself and have read it on thread after thread b/c so many people have observed it. I'm done. Gotta put the kids to bed (my human kids).

 

[talloulou]

There is alot of conflicting information, and sometimes I think people get carried away with strictness, especially when it comes to cycling a tank. Let me just say, (and hopefully people won't jump all over me), I have never left a tank sit empty for any length of time for cycling in my life. And I have been keeping tanks for years. I always figure out what fish I want the tank stocked with and then I add two of the hardiest from the list right away. Then I do lots of water changes, but no vacuuming, and in two weeks I add more fish. I keep doing this until my tank is stocked. I just do lots of water changes while the cycle is still going on. Years ago I didn't even test my water , I just knew once the water was crystal clear that the cycle was finished. I always keep my aquariums planted and I usually use some gravel from an established tank to help seed my new ones. I've never lost fish due to this in all my years doing tanks. It just sort of depresses me to think of people who are new to the hobby sitting around staring at empty tanks waiting for them to "fishless" cycle. I can't help but feel its sort of nonsense. and completely unnecessary. I also think it is sort of crazy to fill your brand new tank up with feeder fish (eeeww) to get your tank started. Plus sites like this are so wonderful for advice however you have to keep in mind that differnet people have varying levels of experience. For instance on a site like this you can multitudes of valuable information but you can also get a fifteen year old who is on their very first 10 gallon tank telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing with yours.

 

[Guest]

There is alot of conflicting information, and sometimes I think people get carried away with strictness, especially when it comes to cycling a tank. ... I can't help but feel its sort of nonsense. and completely unnecessary. I also think it is sort of crazy to fill your brand new tank up with feeder fish (eeeww) to get your tank started.

I have never heard anyone suggest filling a new tank with feeder fish, in fact thats a horrible idea.

 

[greenmaji]

Ive used feeder guppies to cycle a tank before... not the comets.. I would agree that would be a bad idea... this is before I knew about fishless cycling though.. and products to cycle the water were not on the market back then either. If you think that cycling the tank might not be necessary then I would disagree with that, unless your doing 80-100% water changes every day for some reason..

 

[Guest]

I think fishless cycling is a waste of time, but it is more humane to the fish. I would never put feeders in any of my tanks, they are nothing but disease carriers. I plan on setting up my new 12g Nano the same way I set up my 55g, add a few fish (fish I actually want to keep forever in my tank) every three or four days while concurrently using seven days of Sea Chem Stability.

 

[fishyrican]

One thing I've learned in my short 32 years is to display a healthy sense of skepticism in just about everything. I have read and received great advice on AA. One thing that I keep in mind, though, is that every advice should be considered in light of the person offering it. Obviously, advice from a newbie is a lot different than advice from a seasoned veteran fishkeeper.

I think experience and education require you to learn from your mistakes and the experience and mistakes of others. There are so many different approaches to every aspect of fishkeeping that the only basic premise that appears to have widespread support is that you need water to have fish. After that point, you break off into different philosophies and methods, each of which certainly may have merit.

There are posters on AA that command respect because of the content of their posts. There are others, who may have high post counts, that offer little if any good advice. I just take the advice and do my own research in light of the advice. Then, I try to take the best approach.

That's what I like about AA. I have not noticed very many people with a "holier-than-thou" attitude, but instead I have noticed a willingness to offer advice and to stimulate discussion.

 

[dax29]

I agree. BTW, I'm trying that mosquito larvae raising idea you had fishyrican.

 

[fishyrican]

Dax, here in VA, it's getting about that time for skeeters. I'm checking my buckets outside every day now. My wife thinks I'm nuts.

 

[Jchillin]

Plus sites like this are so wonderful for advice however you have to keep in mind that differnet people have varying levels of experience. For instance on a site like this you can multitudes of valuable information but you can also get a fifteen year old who is on their very first 10 gallon tank telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing with yours.

Good point talloulou and for that very reason, no one should immediately pursue a recommended course of action without determining the advisors experience level beforehand. Even then, it's always a good thing to get several pieces of advice prior to making a decision.

I am also from the "Buy tank, fill with water, drop in fish" era. My mom kept a goldfish tank for years and some would die, others wouldn't and we would even see fry at one time or another.

When I got into the hobby, everything had changed (we're talking about a 30 year swing here) and I was completely overwhelmed by all the "new" information and techniques, gosh...a fish forum to boot??

Amazing...and to hear about colleagues raising mosquito larvae to feed their fish? Stunning to say the least.

 

[dax29]

Coome on Jchillin! It's all about the fish!

 

[BillD]

I agree with talloulou, about the cycling thing. I have never "cycled" a tank, as per the fashion now. I do know the nitrogen cycle exists and will establish itself over time. There is no way I will let a tank sit empty for 4 to 6 weeks while a tank without fish develops nitrate. If all your tanks are full, you don't have this luxury, and frankly, I don't have the patience. A case in point. I had a clean 35 I had sterilized with bleach, in cluding the sponge filter. It was then washed down with vinegar to get rid of mineral deposits, rinsed, put back on the stand and filled. A couple of days later, I drained and refilled the tank, and it sat there with water and no filtration. I went to the CAOC convention and became interested in some Heros sp. "Rotkeil" fry that I saw on Friday. I hemmed and hawed Saturday, and decided that when I went back on Sunday I would buy a bag of these fis (7 fish). Be fore I left Sunday morning, I assembled the sponge filter and threw it into an angel tank, planning to use it in the new tank that night. When I briught them home I was a little concerned about the water in the tank, so I drained it again and refilled. Two hours later, i started to acclimitize the fish to the new water, while they were still in the bag, as I knew they came from softer water and they had been in the bag since Thursday. In about 2 hours, I added them to the tank. Before I added the fish, I put a bunch of daphnia in the tank, and they were eating them within minutes of being added to the tank. That was on the 15th of may and they are doing well, and I am pouring the food to them. Sometimes they have food in front of them 24 hours a day, as i have a huge daphnia culture going on top of the winter cover of my pool. Every couple of days, I do a water change, because i know i need to stay ahead of the ammonia, and nitrates, particularily with the amount of food I am feeding. I don't know what the particular water parameters are, but I do do know that the fish I keep will have to get used to the Lake Ontario water they live in, and frquent large water changes will be necessary whether I know the parameters or not. If you are going for optimum growth, it requires lots of food, which necessitates more water changes. At some point, the nitrogen cycle will stabilize in this tank, but it doesn't matter, because I will continue to do the water changes; no amount of filtration will take the place of new water. This is, of course, just my opinion, and I know it works,as I have been doing this for many years. As mentioned at the start, there are many ways to do things, some better than others. The hobby is constantly evolving as is the science that controls it. You read the info, and glean the facts and you adapt this knowledge to your particular situation. I have never had problems from too many water changes, only from not enough.Whew, sorry for running on, but this thread raises some very valid points.

 

[dax29]

I like it! I just did a 30% PWC in all my tanks. I vacuumed the gravel as well. I think new water is always a good idea. I kinda like doing this stuff though. It is not much different than people that like to work flower beds and such. Except you see those people outside doing it all the time and most people think it's a fine thing to see.