Wild or Domestic?

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Andy, some people want domestic colors, some don't. I think you and I are discussing the same point in different ways.

Two, collection can still cause problems, even in freshwater fish. You can believe otherwise, no one can stop you.

Three, not everyone can keep wild. Fish that need a select diet of live foods that someone can't afford, or can't get a hold of, or any number of things, means they CAN'T keep that fish alive, not that they are 'unwilling' to. If they don't physically have room for the large tank it might need, they can't keep it. My point about the bettas has nothing to do with wild or domestic, but the fact that it really is a simple fish to keep, and an amazing amount of human adults are incapable of doing it. You look at all the rams people kill because they're domestic and should be able to acclimate, they still need the higher temps regardless.

If you really think domestic bettas are ok in small jars because someone is 'willing to do the work' I have nothing more to say.

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1- I don't think we are? The original post was in regard to wild vs domestic fish and having had both and seeing how poor today's domestic fish are in comparison to how they were say, 30 years ago when I left the breeding business, I have to give my nod to wild fish being the better choice IF I HAD THE CHOICE. ;) This does not mean that coloration is the determining factor. As I was trying to state, many of the fish we keep don't exist in the wild with the different colors so there is no choice there. :nono:

2- Of course collection practices COULD cause problems, especially if it is done with no regard for the aftermath. Again tho, saying that collecting fish is the only cause of their decline just isn't so. Just look at the Diamond tetra (Moenkhausia pittieri) in Venezuela. In a youtube video about native fish in Venezuela I saw recently, the comment by the narrator was that the Diamond tetra had lost most of it's population in Venezuela due to pollution of the rivers that fed the lakes they were found in, not from over harvesting. So the point I wanted to bring out was that there are other mitigating factors to why fish populations go into decline. This can be seen in the program "Years of living dangerously" episode "Our collapsing oceans". If you watch it, you'll see that the 2 areas where the article you posted spoke about the decline of the Blue Tang, also have a higher rate of coral bleaching which is not a result of collection practices but of the state of the earth as a whole. And to debunk the people who say that the narration is one sided or leaning towards one side or the other, watch the program with no volume and just look for yourself at the pictures being taken underwater. They are not "normal" anymore. :nono:

3- In today's world, you can get pretty much anything you need to get ( in regards to fish keeping equipment) if you are willing to spend the money for it. That was why I said everybody COULD if they really wanted to. Yes, it can be expensive. That I am not denying but to say that people don't have a choice is not truly accurate. They choose to go the cheaper route ( and that's okay if that is what you need to do (y)). Again, the topic is domestic over wild and just like you, I voiced my opinion why I prefer the wild fish over domestic today due to the condition of today's fish in the hobby.

3A- Your argument about people possibly not being able to have a large tank, for whatever reason, does not change that if that is the case, they shouldn't be keeping the fish specie, domestic or wild, in an undersized aquarium at all. :nono:

3B- In regards to "My point about the bettas has nothing to do with wild or domestic, but the fact that it really is a simple fish to keep, and an amazing amount of human adults are incapable of doing it. You look at all the rams people kill because they're domestic and should be able to acclimate, they still need the higher temps regardless." This goes more into the improper care of the fish and not whether it's a healthier fish wild or domestic. So it's part of this conversation is questionable ( to me at least. ;) )

Lastly, the creation of today's Bettas dates back over 300 years in Thailand ( then Siam) and if you look at the history you'll see that that was how they were developed....in small containers. However, even if you didn't look it up, I can say, without fear of contradiction because of personal knowledge and experience, that all male Asian bettas, no matter which country they come from, spend some time in small containers while growing up. So if that market can produce the fish that we all buy because they look so beautiful and healthy ( the ones we do buy for those reasons ;) ) then we can too. It just means different maintenance practices. To keep a wild Betta in such conditions might not be best but again, this is in regards to the domesticated fish. They are not designed to be free swimming in a tank with high water flow or other strenuous conditions. So when they ARE kept in tanks with HOBs and other flowing filters, are we really serving the fish correctly? :whistle:
 
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