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Old 01-06-2017, 06:00 PM   #1
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Wild or Domestic?

Given the choice and availability would you choose to purchase wild caught fish or domestically bred fish?
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:06 PM   #2
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Depends on the fish and why I'm I gtting them.

If kept marine I'd say no, because of reef depletion and how they catch a lot of them.

I keep fresh though, so if I was planning on breeding them for money/conservation of species, or looking for a very special type of look, I'd say yes. Otherwise I'd say I'd be good with domestically bred.

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Old 01-07-2017, 12:09 AM   #3
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The idea of taking a creature from the wild and keeping it in a box, even a very nice box, is a bit hard for me. I'm new enough to the hobby that I don't have a taste for the fancy wild caught.

Splash and Bubbles is making me want a Mandarin dragnet, though.
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:43 AM   #4
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I agree with nirbhao.... wild caught out in a tank would be cruel. though I don't like or agree with fish companies... as their interests are not with the fish but twitch money it is nicer for the fish that have been bred and somewhat rescued from stores and out into a nice and loving tank at your home
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirbhao View Post
The idea of taking a creature from the wild and keeping it in a box, even a very nice box, is a bit hard for me. I'm new enough to the hobby that I don't have a taste for the fancy wild caught.

Splash and Bubbles is making me want a Mandarin dragnet, though.


Mandarin Dragonets tend to starve in captivity. Expert only IMHO. Just FYI They are all wild caught and some never acclimate. They may only eat live food.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:23 PM   #6
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Mandarin Dragonets tend to starve in captivity. Expert only IMHO. Just FYI They are all wild caught and some never acclimate. They may only eat live food.
Plus they aren't voiced by Abby Cadabby.

I apologize for being unclear. I know that people are falling all over themselves for Nemos and Dories. Marine isn't in our foreseeable future. They are beautiful, though.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:53 PM   #7
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WOW, a lot of opinions here but not many good facts being represented. I'd like to address some of these comments with some facts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toad View Post
Depends on the fish and why I'm I gtting them.

If kept marine I'd say no, because of reef depletion and how they catch a lot of them.

I keep fresh though, so if I was planning on breeding them for money/conservation of species, or looking for a very special type of look, I'd say yes. Otherwise I'd say I'd be good with domestically bred.

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Fish depletion has more to do with habitat/reef destruction and over fishing than fish collection. (Many fish we keep in marine & freshwater tanks are used as food fish in other parts of the world.) Many of the fish we keep in freshwater are not found in the wild in the colors available in the stores. For example, you would be hard pressed to find, say, a Pigeon Discus in the wild as it's a man made coloration. Same with most livebearers, Angelfish, Gouramis, Bettas, and others. Most wild caught fish don't have the flashy colors that you find in the shop today. So if you were choosing between a domesticated version of a similar wild fish, you might just find that the wild fish is a stronger healthier fish than the domestic one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nirbhao View Post
The idea of taking a creature from the wild and keeping it in a box, even a very nice box, is a bit hard for me. I'm new enough to the hobby that I don't have a taste for the fancy wild caught.

Splash and Bubbles is making me want a Mandarin dragnet, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loubeardy View Post
I agree with nirbhao.... wild caught out in a tank would be cruel. though I don't like or agree with fish companies... as their interests are not with the fish but twitch money it is nicer for the fish that have been bred and somewhat rescued from stores and out into a nice and loving tank at your home
While this is a typical novice opinion in fish keeping, as you get further into the hobby you will realize that when kept properly, a wild fish is actually safer in a tank than in the wild. #1 reason: NO predation by other fish. ( Remember, I said "when kept properly." ) With today's world being in the destructive mode that it is in, many fish are in danger of becoming extinct in the wild and collecting and breeding these wild fish ( usually in tanks ) is quickly becoming a means to help save species of total extinction. There is also evidence of depleted species coming back once the collection of the remaining fish has stopped ( usually due to successful breeding programs) or sustainable collection habits are established. Over population in wild stock is not usually an issue as only a small percentage of fish fry become breeding adults in "the circle of life" however, domesticated fish are not subject to a higher amount of depletion by natural predation thereby allowing poorer quality fish to make it to market.

As for the cruelty of fish keeping, the same could be said about miniature dogs, horses, pigs, cats and a whole host of animals that have been altered from their wild state to make mankind a new pet. My biggest question regarding cruelty in fish is this: If I create a habitat that allows my wild fish to find food, congregate amongst their own ( if that's the type of fish it is), live without fear of being eaten, breed and live out a natural lifespan, WHERE is the cruelty in that?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coursair View Post
Mandarin Dragonets tend to starve in captivity. Expert only IMHO. Just FYI They are all wild caught and some never acclimate. They may only eat live food.
While Mandarins are not a good beginner fish, they are not all wild caught anymore. There are companies such as ORA that breed them and offer them and other dragonettes for sale. Blue Mandarin | Synchiropus splendidus | ORA | Oceans, Reefs & Aquariums
These domesticated fish don't just eat live foods.

Please note that my comments are not in any way meant to demean or argue with the member's posts. They are meant as a clarification of some misleading information. There is a difference between opinion and fact and while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, opinions should be monitored when offering advice especially when it goes against the facts. And that's my opinion.

To answer the OP's original question:
Having been in the hobby for as long as I have and having worked with wild and second and third generation from wild fish, I would take a wild fish over today's domesticated fish any day of the week. Many of today's fish are genetically weak and weaker than wild stock. Being a breeder for a long time as well, I see many more poor quality fish per spawn than I did back in the 60s, 70s and even the early 80s. Those new to the hobby appear to have the deck stacked against them from the start when it comes to available fish quality. ( That too is my opinion but it's based on real facts. )
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:20 PM   #8
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While this is a typical novice opinion in fish keeping, as you get further into the hobby you will realize that when kept properly, a wild fish is actually safer in a tank than in the wild.
Properly really is the key, and there is a difference between safe and natural.

Natural predation is part of what fish are built for. In fact, it's pretty important. For example, guppies have so many babies because lots of fish eat them.

In fact, right now, there's an issue with sea urchins in the wild not having enough natural predators. They eat the bases of kelp plants, and whole kelp forests become unmoored, which is damaging to many species of both plants and animals- both aquatic and terrestrial.

Habitat destruction and hunting are dangers they can't fight against. In that respect, I agree that they not only deserve but also need protection.

Part of that protection is from collection for the consumer market.

I live near and am a member of a zoo that is a pioneer in humane treatment of animals, breeding programs, and programs to reintroduce endangered critters. They have breeding pairs of giraffes, red pandas, African bush dogs, and other critically endangered animals. They also rescue animals who have been harmed in the wild and who were inappropriately kept as pets.

The footprint of the zoo is 125 acres, and they have refused animals due to a lack of size.

This is where we get back to hobby aquarists.

My cousins have a huge reef that requires staff upkeep. It is its own room. How many people have that? And how many people are keeping the bare minimum of schooling groups in a tank just big enough to contain them? As individuals, we flat out can't recreate a natural environment.

We can give them very good lives. We can take good care of them, keep them safe, and feed them well. We can give them plants and flow and daylight cycles, but it will never be nature.
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:30 PM   #9
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I am new to this so my facts as you say was limited... it was just my point of view... I don't know if it's safer or what not. and I meant when you take a fish from the wild to be put into a small tank at a store or to breed then moved again is cruel in a sense. though there are benefits of a tank.... of properly provided habitat it is safer.. no predators, regular promised food, clean envirment. but it could still be considered cruel in some opinions..... put a person in a hospital with a garden..... guaranteed good health, food, no threats, out doors, space. but it would still be cruel...... no freedom. fish will never 100% have a natural habitat in a tank.
amd I completly agree on the pets in general. and don't get me started in breeders and puppy farms.
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:32 PM   #10
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I am new to this so my facts as you say was limited... it was just my point of view... I don't know if it's safer or what not. and I meant when you take a fish from the wild to be put into a small tank at a store or to breed then moved again is cruel in a sense. though there are benefits of a tank.... of properly provided habitat it is safer.. no predators, regular promised food, clean envirment. but it could still be considered cruel in some opinions..... put a person in a hospital with a garden..... guaranteed good health, food, no threats, out doors, space. but it would still be cruel...... no freedom. fish will never 100% have a natural habitat in a tank.
amd I completly agree on the pets in general. and don't get me started in breeders and puppy farms.
bit i am new to this (like super new) so my knowledge is limited ... and I'm full aware of that... but never going to learn if I don't get involved in such posts
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