24 hrs Ich?

[Wael El-Dasher]

My powder blue tang had a few white spots for less than 24 hrs. It was more like 14-16 hrs. I immediately went out and bought a tank for quarantine. But from everything I've read it should have lasted much longer before the parasite drops to the substrate to start it's reproduction cycle and come back 10x stronger. Could what I observed be not Ich?

 

[pat8you]

If it was Ich then there would still probably be some white spots on the fish still. Not all the parasites are going to drop off to restart the life cycle at once so there will always be a few spots on the fish. I wouldn't treat for Ich unless you see more spots. They are really small though so really watch for the next few days.

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

I noticed the spots are still there at night. Is it common for the spots to only be visible under aquarium lights only? They are not visible at all during the day with no aquarium lights on. Is that normal?

Cheers

Wael

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

I raised the water temp to 28 C (82.5 F) and what a difference in spots. They appear gone and the fish is happy.

 

[Krypt]

I would set up that QT and get it cycled and ready. You probably are witnessing the beginning of an ich infection of your tang. That's exactly how it started for me, few spots, then more 2-3 days later, then MORE, then bad things.
SW ich can't be treated with temperature like FW ich can. You'll need to read up on hyposalinity treatment for ich to get prepared. Also, try feeding the tang some nori soaked in garlic to help boost it's immune system.

 

[melosu58]

An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com


Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

Yup, I read those articles. I started setting up the QT, but called the LFS and told him to get me a larger tank than the one I bought from him. I figured I'll need to keep this tank ready at all times so it might as well be large enough to keep the various fish, corals, rock...etc comfortably. The 30 gallon tank should be here in a day or two. In the mean time the fish is getting garlic added to it's food and the temp is raised a bit to try and control the spreading rate until the tank arrives.

 

[melosu58]

Raising the temp. in Sw does not help at all. If it was me I would QT all fish and treat with Hypo.

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

Both LFS owners I talked to said to try the 2 minute freshwater dip and recommended the UV lights as both said they've not experienced ich in tanks that run UV. from what I've read it does help but it's not a solution to an existing ich problem. It works as a preventative measure in the long run.

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

Just an update. Lighting is everything when it comes to diagnosis. I finally received my new QT, set it up with water from the main tank and let it run 24hrs with it's filtration system.

I gathered 3 of the 4 fish I had in the main tank (blenny is impossible to catch) and placed them in the QT. The lighting in my main tank are 4x 54watt T5, the color temps are 19k & 15k. What seemed minor in the main tank and often appeared to disappear, became blatantly obvious in the QT. The lights in the QT are more like 5k & 9k. The white spots became instantly clearer. I started the treatment with Cupramine and it's been 2 days at 0.1mg/l so tonight I'll raise it up to 0.3mg/l and hold that for 2 days before finally reaching my goal of 0.5mg/l

The lighting is critical in the evaluation process of any disease.

Cheers

Wael

 

[Krypt]

How are your ammonia levels in the QT after 2 days?

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

I didn't check cause I used water from the main tank to fill it. The nitrates are between 10 & 15 depending on when I test it. Ammonia shouldn't be a problem I assumed since most people set up a QT immediately when needed by filling a tank they keep stored empty, slap on a bio wheel. The filters are normally are stored in the main tank sump. In my case it didn't seem to matter because the copper would negate any benefit of bacteria in the filter. At least that's what I've read.

 

[Krypt]

You are correct about the copper killing your nitrifying bacteria, but your incorrect in your assumption that ammonia will not be a problem. Since your QT has no way to process fish waste, ammonia will rise . Those levels need be checked once or twice a day depending how many fish you have in QT and if there is any ammonia present, you need to do a water change to get it back to 0.

This is what makes copper a real pain to use for treating ich. Since you have to do water changes constantly due to ammonia, you have to mathematically figure out how much copper you removed during the water change and then replenish it. Replenish too much, the fish die, replenish too little and the ich lives and the fish die. It's a real headache. If you ever need to treat for ich in the future, it is MUCH easier to use hyposalinity as a treatment.

Hyposalinity will kill ich the same as copper does, but you can at least build a bacterial colony using a bio-wheel or other filter media and there is no need to worry about dosing chemicals.

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

Thanks! Thus is all excellent info that will come in handy next time. BTW, is the Seachem Ammonia alert system good? I do test for it in my main tank but I keep an alert tag hanging in the tank at the same time. Have you used it? If it's accurate enough then I can place one in the QT as well.

Cheers

Wael

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

Does the copper throw off the levels?

 

[Krypt]

I don't know about the ammonia tags so I can't really comment on those, but the copper in the water shouldn't throw off your testing results for ammonia/nitrite.

 

[AdamHorton]

Just to let you know, I've had some problems in the past with using biological filtration in a quarantine tank the way you said you are doing: I kept the Bio-Max bag from AquaClear filters in my sump (they were down there even when I cycled my tank) and used them in a QT. It was like using a brand new filter, it cycled just the same as a new tank.

Maybe I was doing something wrong, but if I were you I'd keep a very close eye on my ammonia levels, regardless of the treatment you're using. Good luck.

 

[Wael El-Dasher]

Well I'm glad you mentioned the ammonia because I found it at 0.6! I did a 80% water change and now it's back down to somewhere between 0.05-0.1

You saved my fish. Thanks! My NO3 was at 15mg/l so that didn't warn me that there was a problem. My issue now is my Ph is very high. I added the only thing that I had on hand, which is KH buffer. Does that help?

 

[Krypt]

I'm glad you got the ammonia under control and the fish are ok, great stuff. As for your ph being high, what is the actual reading? You just did a massive pwc so the ph should be very close to what is normal for your salt mix. Adding KH buffer can actually increase your ph so I would stop adding it.

 

[Innovator]

For what it's worth, copper very well could have an impact on ammonia testing depending on the products used, i.e. Seachem I believe. If performing 50% water changes daily (siphoning waste and uneaten food) ammonia shouldn't be an issue unless you overstock your QT. In a QT you are trying to avoid cycling due to the medications involved. As far as copper, it is fairly simple to dose: For instance, your target should be 0.18mg/L of copper sulfate. In theory, if you perform a 50% water change then you would need to redose at half the original dosage, 0.09. Of course, you would need to perform a copper test prior to any dosing. To calculate dosage after a water change, take the number of gallons, we'll use 20g, and multiply by 3.785 multiplied by the difference between your target and what your test yields. Example: Gallons=20. Target=0.18mg/l. 50% water change=0.09mg/l. Take 20x3.785=75.7x0.09=6.813. Your dosage after a 50% water change would be 6.813ml (Either dose 7ml or 6.5ml). Hope I got that right lol. Hyposalinity is a longer approach, not guaranteed to kill crypt., and accelerates Uronema. I rather battle ich than Uronema. If dosing copper properly, it is a more thorough and easier process than hypo ime.