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Old 07-30-2004, 07:11 AM   #1
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Am I worrying about nothing?

I have only 1 fish in my tank atm, its a strawberry gramma, supposedly a peaceful fish but he's causing grief or so I think?

He was added to the tank 12 days ago with a peppermint shrimp which he hassled right from the word go... I was told this is natural & it should settle down? The peppermint took to hiding up behind a PH & will not come out, though he has since molted so I don't know if that is why?

Yesterday I added some turbo's & a couple of cleaner shrimps.. Mr Gramma tried pecking at them through the bags whilst they were acclimatising!! Once in the tank he then started picking on both the shrimps & snails!

This morning I tried to trap the gramma to take him back to the LFS, but thats a lot easier said than done & I'm not going to rip my tank apart to catch him....

I tried a bottle trap with half a block of frozen brine shrimp in (bad move!) as the brine shrimp came out of the bottle, though the gramma & the cleaners had a feast Since this though the gramma seems to be leaving the shrimps alone?

Finally getting to the question do you think he was picking on the shrimps etc because he was hungry? up until today I'd only been putting half a dozen scrapings off one of the frozen cubes of food, do you think I was under feeding the fish? He actually seems to feed better if I leave the PH's on & the food gets whizzed around the tank?

Or have I been unlucky in getting an aggressive fish thats gonna pick on everything I put in the tank? I was thinking of getting a clown at the weekend (couldn't get him first as the LFS didn't have & the gramma was on my list anyways?) & I'm worried the gramma could seriously stress it out or will it all settle down over a couple of days & I'm worrying about nothing?

I don't have a QT, yes I know, I know! but I don't have the room for one & thats why I've been sticking to the same 2 LFS's for livestock not only that there will only be 4 or 5 fish going in my tank.....

Cheers Shelton.
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30gal tank, 20kgs Fiji + 4kgs Madagascan LR, bare bottom, 2 x Maxijets 900, AquaC Remora skimmer, 10W D&D UV using a spraybar on surface for return,Maxijet 600 + spraybar behind LR, Ecco 2234 running RowaPhos/GAC, 150w visitherm.
Custom Built lid; 2 x T5 megatwin (4x39W Aquablue+); 4 moonlights.

IKS with temp & PH probes, controlling lights,heat & cooling fans.


Percula Clown; Banggai Cardinal; Firefish; Mandarin
2 Cleaner Shrimps; 3 Peppermint Shrimps; 1 Blood Shrimp
1 Large Feather Duster; 1 Hard Tube Coco Worm; Yellow Cucumber.
6 Red Legged Hermits; 1 Green Emerald Crab; 16 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermits; 3 Zebra Hermits; 3 Popsock Hermits
22 Turbo/Astrae Snails; 20 IO Snails
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Old 07-30-2004, 10:45 AM   #2
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If you're not going to QT the clown, at least do a good dip.
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Old 07-30-2004, 12:33 PM   #3
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Hmmmmmmm, 29 views but nobody has any thoughts on feeding?

Regarding the "dip" I have been told by various people that it is very stressful for fish, is more likely to bring on diease through the stress & doesn't effect one of the main parasitic infections fish can get anyways?

Cheers Shelton.
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30gal tank, 20kgs Fiji + 4kgs Madagascan LR, bare bottom, 2 x Maxijets 900, AquaC Remora skimmer, 10W D&D UV using a spraybar on surface for return,Maxijet 600 + spraybar behind LR, Ecco 2234 running RowaPhos/GAC, 150w visitherm.
Custom Built lid; 2 x T5 megatwin (4x39W Aquablue+); 4 moonlights.

IKS with temp & PH probes, controlling lights,heat & cooling fans.


Percula Clown; Banggai Cardinal; Firefish; Mandarin
2 Cleaner Shrimps; 3 Peppermint Shrimps; 1 Blood Shrimp
1 Large Feather Duster; 1 Hard Tube Coco Worm; Yellow Cucumber.
6 Red Legged Hermits; 1 Green Emerald Crab; 16 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermits; 3 Zebra Hermits; 3 Popsock Hermits
22 Turbo/Astrae Snails; 20 IO Snails
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Old 07-30-2004, 12:43 PM   #4
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Don't judge the behavour of the Gramma soley on the reactions of the peppermint. They are by nature quite reclusive and will commonly hide throughout the daylight hours. If the Gramma is exhibiting the same behavour towards all the other inverts, then it might be an idea to remove it. I had a similar situation with a Strawberry Pseudo, it harassed many a fish and invert in my 90 gal and was moved to my 27 with the clown which inhabit a sebae. Since then, no issues.

As far as the dip is concerned, yes it can be quite stressful especially if not done correctly. The most important thing you need to consider is it does not erradicate most types of parasitic problems, only lessens the severity and is not a substitute for a proper QT period. Adding a fish from LFS to display is a risk with or without a dip.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 07-30-2004, 12:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
Don't judge the behavour of the Gramma soley on the reactions of the peppermint. They are by nature quite reclusive and will commonly hide throughout the daylight hours. If the Gramma is exhibiting the same behavour towards all the other inverts, then it might be an idea to remove it. I had a similar situation with a Strawberry Pseudo, it harassed many a fish and invert in my 90 gal and was moved to my 27 with the clown which inhabit a sebae. Since then, no issues.

As far as the dip is concerned, yes it can be quite stressful especially if not done correctly. The most important thing you need to consider is it does not erradicate most types of parasitic problems, only lessens the severity and is not a substitute for a proper QT period. Adding a fish from LFS to display is a risk with or without a dip.

Cheers
Steve
Thanks Steve,

The gramma /was/ hassling everything, but since that big feed he's not hassled anything? was half a cube of frozen food too much?

I know I face a risk with no QT, I'm hoping that because I will only get 4 or 5 fish max that without stressing them I can get them in the tank without bringing anything with them..

The LFS I use for fish will not sell anything that doesn't look 100% right or hasn't be feeding well before hand, so hopefully that will help minimise the risk.

Just out of curio is it just fish that bring the infections or can inverts as well? Of course I do not add the LFS water to my tank

Cheers Shelton.
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30gal tank, 20kgs Fiji + 4kgs Madagascan LR, bare bottom, 2 x Maxijets 900, AquaC Remora skimmer, 10W D&D UV using a spraybar on surface for return,Maxijet 600 + spraybar behind LR, Ecco 2234 running RowaPhos/GAC, 150w visitherm.
Custom Built lid; 2 x T5 megatwin (4x39W Aquablue+); 4 moonlights.

IKS with temp & PH probes, controlling lights,heat & cooling fans.


Percula Clown; Banggai Cardinal; Firefish; Mandarin
2 Cleaner Shrimps; 3 Peppermint Shrimps; 1 Blood Shrimp
1 Large Feather Duster; 1 Hard Tube Coco Worm; Yellow Cucumber.
6 Red Legged Hermits; 1 Green Emerald Crab; 16 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermits; 3 Zebra Hermits; 3 Popsock Hermits
22 Turbo/Astrae Snails; 20 IO Snails
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Old 07-30-2004, 01:24 PM   #6
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IME, there is no way to minimise the risk. The fish will either carry the parasite or it won't and whether or not it has looked fine for weeks in the LFS is no indication. Please don't learn this the hard way!

The risk with inverts is small enough to not be of concern, although the ideal situation would be to QT pretty much everything you plan to add.

About the feeding, half a cube probably was a bit too much but hopefully the shrimp found any scraps left at the bottom. Once you get some hermits and a brittle/serpent star you won't have to worry about leftover food at all.
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Atari
IME, there is no way to minimise the risk. The fish will either carry the parasite or it won't and whether or not it has looked fine for weeks in the LFS is no indication. Please don't learn this the hard way!

The risk with inverts is small enough to not be of concern, although the ideal situation would be to QT pretty much everything you plan to add.

About the feeding, half a cube probably was a bit too much but hopefully the shrimp found any scraps left at the bottom. Once you get some hermits and a brittle/serpent star you won't have to worry about leftover food at all.
I understand what advice you are all giving me about QT, beleive me if I could, I would.... its just not possible here atm

Glad to hear about inverts, that puts my mind at rest

The shrimps did grab some stuff as it went past them I went to another LFS this afternoon, thier tank temps were upto 86F!! They wanted £29.99 ($52) for a fire shrimp! & £3.19 ($5.58) per blue hermit & they were less than ¼" as well 8O

Safe to say all things considered I left with nothing......

Cheers Shelton.
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30gal tank, 20kgs Fiji + 4kgs Madagascan LR, bare bottom, 2 x Maxijets 900, AquaC Remora skimmer, 10W D&D UV using a spraybar on surface for return,Maxijet 600 + spraybar behind LR, Ecco 2234 running RowaPhos/GAC, 150w visitherm.
Custom Built lid; 2 x T5 megatwin (4x39W Aquablue+); 4 moonlights.

IKS with temp & PH probes, controlling lights,heat & cooling fans.


Percula Clown; Banggai Cardinal; Firefish; Mandarin
2 Cleaner Shrimps; 3 Peppermint Shrimps; 1 Blood Shrimp
1 Large Feather Duster; 1 Hard Tube Coco Worm; Yellow Cucumber.
6 Red Legged Hermits; 1 Green Emerald Crab; 16 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermits; 3 Zebra Hermits; 3 Popsock Hermits
22 Turbo/Astrae Snails; 20 IO Snails
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:28 PM   #8
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8O Those prices are crazy!

Have a look at clams.co.uk I seem to remember they had very reasonable prices for all their critters. It would probably still work out good even after P&P if you get a few different items.
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:50 PM   #9
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I know! they had LR REDUCED on special from £9.99 to £4.99 per LB!!! good job I read the sign properly as I was going to get a couple of bits......

Just had a look at that site, looks good, might order a few hermits/snails & maybe a serpent star next week

Gonna email them a couple of questions first & see how good a response I get.

Cheers Shelton.
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30gal tank, 20kgs Fiji + 4kgs Madagascan LR, bare bottom, 2 x Maxijets 900, AquaC Remora skimmer, 10W D&D UV using a spraybar on surface for return,Maxijet 600 + spraybar behind LR, Ecco 2234 running RowaPhos/GAC, 150w visitherm.
Custom Built lid; 2 x T5 megatwin (4x39W Aquablue+); 4 moonlights.

IKS with temp & PH probes, controlling lights,heat & cooling fans.


Percula Clown; Banggai Cardinal; Firefish; Mandarin
2 Cleaner Shrimps; 3 Peppermint Shrimps; 1 Blood Shrimp
1 Large Feather Duster; 1 Hard Tube Coco Worm; Yellow Cucumber.
6 Red Legged Hermits; 1 Green Emerald Crab; 16 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermits; 3 Zebra Hermits; 3 Popsock Hermits
22 Turbo/Astrae Snails; 20 IO Snails
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