Angel with Ich... sad update...

[havefun]

Well I hoped I would never have to visit this forum but ... <sigh>... here I am.
I have a singapore angel who has the dreaded ich. Only 2 other fish in the tank at the moment, an O. clown and a chromis, neither of which are showing any signs of it. No, I did not QT, I am a newbie and thought I would be one of the "lucky" ones....yeah right.
From reading a bunch of other posts here I pretty much know what I need to do to take care of it but here's the catcher... This Friday (June 17), we are leaving on vacation for 1 week. I have my sister (fw experienced) comming over every 2 days to top off and feed. I can't expect her to take care of a newly setup QT tank as well.

Questions:
What is the possibility of my angel lasting another 2 weeks without treatment? He still eats and acts normally.

Should I set the QT up now to get it cycling? My thought is not to. If I set it up when I get back the fish will have a chance to slowly get used to a cycling tank.

TIA
Steve

 

[quarryshark]

What is the possibility of my angel lasting another 2 weeks without treatment? He still eats and acts normally.

Hard to say, each cycle that the parasite goes through will produce more parasites and its hard to say how long it will take to overwhelm the fish.
You could always treat the fish with hypo. No meds to monitor and she would just have to do top offs and monitor the water quality. You could have change water made up for her. If she does fresh, then she knows how to do water changes.
Sorry, wish I could be more helpful, but its really hard to say.

 

[srgetz]

Hmm, this is a tough call, as quarry said. Last year I went away for the last week of my Hippo Tang being in Hypo. However you have to leave so soon, I would not want someone else having the responsibility of a cycling QT tank which could put a stressed fish over the edge. Here's what I suggest - remove the inverts and lower the salinity in the main tank to 12ppt. Your coraline algae may suffer a bit, but it will survive overall. Your biofilter will survive and she will only have to do water top offs and feed lightly, maybe add some ph buffer. Other than that, your alternative would be do several water changes and give him garlic and treat him properly when you get back. He should be fine for several weeks, Ich can take a long while to kill. If you are going this route, a fresh water dip before you go (with PH & temp matched water) may offer the fish some added relief as well. This is not a cure, but to offer some short-term relief only. Hope this helps....

 

[havefun]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think maybe I'll just wait it out, it's just an aweful lot to ask of someone to look after a cycling tank with fish. I am interested in the fw dip though. If my fw PH doesn't match I assume there is a buffer which I can purchase?
Of the 3 fish I have the one I would really really, hate to lose is my clown. Luckily he is not showing any signs as of yet.
I'll keep you posted how it goes...

Steve

 

[quarryshark]

hate to lose is my clown. Luckily he is not showing any signs as of yet.

TR percs are pretty resistent IME.
I wish you luck, its a tough call.
I hate to disagree, but I believe the dip is a waste of time and stressful on the animal. It will do nothing to help the problem. As soon as th fish is back in the system, it will become reinfected.

 

[havefun]

Just thinking ahead here...
Say I lose the angel, I assume I still QT the clown and chromis (to rid my main of ich) but do I treat them even if they show no spots?

 

[quarryshark]

Yes treat them and leave the main fishless for at last 6 weeks. Or you'll just go through it again.
You can always use a hypo treatment, very well tolerated not harsh at all.

 

[srgetz]

Most of the time I agree dips are useless and stressful. IMO it is possible to offer some relief, although I would only consider if the fish was heavily covered in it AND I was going away for a week. But I agree it is still risky and questionable at best and by no means a cure (FW cannot get the parasite deep in the skin). If the fish is not too badly covered with ICH, I would just do a water change or two, make sure the water parameters are perfect, and get some garlic to mix with the food and maybe some vitamins to boost the immune system. They should survive till you get back and treat. As you stated, managing a new qt / med tank can be very involving and I would not leave that to someone else. But I would start cycling the qt tank (if you decide to treat when you get back). Just put liverock, a filter or stocking full of sand in there and a powerhead, set temp to 80-85 F.

Lowering the salinity in the main tank (to 12-14ppt) is a consideration under extreme situations like this also. Obviously, this would depend on how many inverts you have in there. Oh, and just in case you are tempted, stay far away from so called "reef safe" ICH cures. They will do nothing but pollute your system. Good luck with it and let us know what you decide to do...

 

[havefun]

Hmmm...
treatment options:

For hypo I would need to buy:
refractometer = $42

copper I would need to buy:
Cupramine = $7
copper test kit $18

Now I just need to convince the wifey on the refracto (and read up on that method)....

Thanks again!

 

[havefun]

srgetz:
Today if I didn't know to look for them I probably wouldn't even realize he has ich - only a few spots.
So you think it's better to start the cycle now and introduce the fish into a tank with some (hopefully very little) ammo/trite instead of letting them get used to it over a span of days?

They do make those "reef safe" meds look very tempting. If anyone ever succeeds in making one that actually works they'll probably make a killing on it. I know I'd pay a high price for it.

 

[srgetz]

Yea but remember cupramine treatment will require lots of water changes as the biofilter is zapped just like Ich. You will be fighting an ammonia battle. Hypo is much easier IMO, as you can use liverock or another biofilter and not have the constant water change / ammonia burden. It is also not stressful to the fish because of this and the lack of copper. I borrowed a refractometer from a nice member here, perhaps you can borrow one. Or you could always buy and resell on ebay and get most your money back - meaning in the end it's cheaper than cupramine!

Also, if you are going to wait and treat when you get back in 10 or so days - if you keep the temp in the 80s you may want to lower it some slowly to the low 70s. This may slow down the parasite a wee bit and help give the fish an edge. Just lower it slowly, no more than about 2 degrees per day. Ich moves fastest at around 86F. You can then raise the temp to 85F when tank's empty to speed its life cycle.

 

[srgetz]

They do make those "reef safe" meds look very tempting. If anyone ever succeeds in making one that actually works they'll probably make a killing on it. I know I'd pay a high price for it.

The problem is how do you effectively kill one tiny bad invert, ICH, while not killing the other good - your biofilter, liverock, corals???

I

Today if I didn't know to look for them I probably wouldn't even realize he has ich - only a few spots.

Thats a good sign, he should be fine till you get back and treat. Yes, I would start the QT as I said, it will only make it easier for you when you return. Plus if you order (or borrow) a refractometer, it should be there when you return. You will be ready to go. Put several hunks of extra liverock in if you can, that will eliminate a big cycle and you probably won't be able to measure ammonia with fish in there. Worked great for me. The only time liverock has to come out is when using meds, it will absorb meds which is not good. You can also use a power filter or skimmer, does not affect hypo at all.

PS - don't dip him, with few spots it's not warranted, he will be fine for 10 days, keep the water quality high (a few water changes would be a good idea as it would both reduce the parasites in the water and improve the water quality), keep the temp med to low (~70's), and feed vitamins & garlic - this combined will give the fish an edge so you can vacation worry-free.

 

[quarryshark]

I have treated with both and for ich, I prefer hypo. Much of your biofilter will survive, but keep a close eye on PH. It will take a dive and you will have to buffer.

 

[havefun]

Well, we're back. Had a great time but unfortunately the tank had a few mishaps in my absence. I'm going to make a new post in the "General Discussion" forum but for anyone who was following this thread I no longer have to QT my fish. They were taken out by something other than ich.

 

[quarryshark]

Awww, I'm so sorry. If it took everything out that fast, then it was probably velvet. Been there, done that.
You best move now would be to leave the tank fishless for a full 8 weeks and then start over QTing all your new fish as you get them.
Here is an article about marine velvet. I would bet that was the culprit.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=46