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Old 12-11-2003, 12:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awillemd1
Could poor acclimation lead to a very slow death?
Yes. If acclimated too quickly it could take a few weeks before they succumb. How have they been introduced?

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Old 12-11-2003, 08:01 AM   #12
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I have introduced them by floating them for at least and hour in a bag and then tried to introduce roughly 25% of the tank water into the bag and float for another 15 minutes to half an hour. Then I have put them in the tank by hand. This is a far cry from the drip method that I have seen described somewhere.

What is strange is that the ones that have survived appear very healthy. This to me suggests that there isn't a 'poison' in the tank like copper or an organic hurting them.

I should be able to get copper tested today.

I haven't been able to get any photos of the crabs because they only come out at night. My one attempt resulted in a large white spot from the flash.

awillemd
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Old 12-11-2003, 11:35 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by awillemd1
I have introduced them by floating them for at least and hour in a bag and then tried to introduce roughly 25% of the tank water into the bag and float for another 15 minutes to half an hour. Then I have put them in the tank by hand. This is a far cry from the drip method that I have seen described somewhere.
<<This>> artcile should help next time. It details how to drip acclimate properly. It's not just the time you float the bag but the speed in which tank water is intruduced. If done correctly, the process can take a few hours. For more sensitive inverts, it can make or break their successful introduction to the tank...

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Old 12-11-2003, 01:20 PM   #14
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Thank you that is a great help. I think this could potentially explain the problem if it makes sense that the snails would die slowly if poorly acclamated. Also, the article clearly mentions snails as being very sensitive to acclamation.

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Old 12-11-2003, 02:53 PM   #15
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My Cu came out to be zero, along with zero for Ammonia and zero fo Nitrate. Interestingly, my pH came in at 7.8. My lfs did this analysis for me. I hadn't checked my pH at home for a couple of weeks. Typically I get between 8.0 and 8.4. I have a hard time getting it any more precise than that with my test kit.

I think the hypothesis I am going on right now is that I screwed up the acclamation.

Thank you all, once again, for the help.

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Old 12-11-2003, 08:40 PM   #16
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Based on the above info, I would agree about the acclimation. It's good that you know for sure it's not really chemical. Although the ph test will not be accurate. Once you remove water from the tank it is affected by ambient O2/CO2 and skews the reading. If you transported the water sample to the LFS to test the ph, I can assure you the results are false. It is best tested within a few minutes of removing from the tank.

I would suggest testing the ph for a few days at 3 different times if possible. Once before the lights come on, midway through the photoperiod and just before the lights go off. This will give you a decent idea of what the ph is doing. Just be sure the time of day tested is always the same. ph is greatly affected by many things but in most cases will be from lack of proper gas exchange, insufficient water surface aggitation and/or excess ambient CO2...

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Old 12-11-2003, 10:41 PM   #17
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Thank you for taking the time to explain that! The water sat in my car for a couple of days, so it was definitely not an accurate reading of pH. I will take your advice and check it over the next couple of days.

I will continue to work on getting pictures to hopefully rule out the possibility that my crabs or lobster are the ones killing the snails, but it seems logical at this point that acclimation is the problem.

Thanks again.

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Old 12-12-2003, 09:51 AM   #18
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I read the article and unfortunately I have no sump and no air lines so that would not seem to really be something I could pull off. But maybe I can come up with something once I think about it more.. Also how can this be.. I just don't understand how if something makes it 3 weeks then dies it is due to acclimation..It would seem to me if it goes in and is eating and healthy for 3 weeks it has probably adjusted well but there was a problem with the water. I guess I just don't understand how it could be a problem down the road. I could see it even taking a few days for it to die but weeks?? I am not questioning you guys because you have been right about everything so far I just can't seem to figure out how a bad acclimation can effect the critter that far down the road..That being said you guys know alot more than me so I will take it as gospel.
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Old 12-12-2003, 11:10 AM   #19
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Thank you for saying that. I am struggling with this concept as well. That is why I want to still pursue figuring out the identity of the crabs and the lobster in my tank. I have no idea what the lobster is eating. For all I know he could get hungry and come out and pick at the snails such that they slowly die. Or for that matter, the small hermit crabs could be doing this. Also, my Coral Banded Shrimp is very aggessive and he could be picking at the snails, as well. My son observed him eating one that had fallen and was on his back. However, we have no idea why the snail was on his back since we didn't observe that event. Furthermore, the snail was still alive. Could the Coral Banded Shrimp be the culprit?

I'm still confused, but at least I know now it isn't copper.

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Old 12-12-2003, 11:38 AM   #20
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I read the article and unfortunately I have no sump and no air lines so that would not seem to really be something I could pull off. But maybe I can come up with something once I think about it more..
Airline tubing is quite inexspensive so it should not be a concern. Having a sump just makes it much easier to do this, less mess and provides a more constant temp. Without one though, just substitiute it for a large pail and hang the transport bag from the inside edge and use the same procedure. The constant drip of water should keep the temp somewhat close.

Quote:
Also how can this be.. I just don't understand how if something makes it 3 weeks then dies it is due to acclimation..It would seem to me if it goes in and is eating and healthy for 3 weeks it has probably adjusted well but there was a problem with the water. I guess I just don't understand how it could be a problem down the road. I could see it even taking a few days for it to die but weeks?? I am not questioning you guys because you have been right about everything so far I just can't seem to figure out how a bad acclimation can effect the critter that far down the road..
Acclimation shock can be immediate or prolonged and sometimes not be evident for weeks. There is also the chance that the animal wa unhealthy from the getgo. If all your procedures for introduction and tank parameters are fine you may also try a different LFS or source store for future purchases. It is not always going to be something you did. As with awillemd1 situation, you need to eliminate all possible causes to be sure. It's sometimes not as easy to pinpoint and each possibility should be investigated.

Quote:
That being said you guys know alot more than me so I will take it as gospel.
Gospel... not really, hopefully accurate information backed up with the experience of having gone through these things ourselves... Very few things in this hobby are written in stone but there are many tried and true methods

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