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Old 01-21-2005, 12:54 PM   #11
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Well Im keeping my fingers crossed...so far the 3 bumps are not there and no more this morning.
Unfortunately ich goes through a lifecycle, keep a close eye.
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I think the right conditions are what spur it into action. I am being told by numerous fish stores here that have been around a long time in my area that this is the case.
Don't forget, they are in the business to sell fish, not scare people away. Have to consider motives here a bit.
There have also been many people that have effected a cure, when the treatment is done correctly.
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You would think that as many years as the hobby has been around that there would be a conclusive study on this subject...I dont want to appear aurumentative but very frustrating to think there is no conclusive study on this.
There have been, but there is a lot of junk meds out there with their miracle cures that are being marketed by companies with a lot of punch in this hobby. "Some" of the LFS make money from these "quick fixes and of course want to sell them. People like a quick, easy cure and unfortunately doing it right is not the easiest way.
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Old 01-21-2005, 02:41 PM   #12
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Well to address your comments...and again just conversation-not diagreeing with you. The fish stores here know me well and they tell me that most of the ick meds are crap and not to buy them but rather if I am going to treat do it with copper. And yes I know ick goes through a cycle. I have read until my eyes are about to fall out. If I treat, it will be in a QT tank and with copper.
Also I did read an article that states that some fish build up an immunity to ick. I think this might have happened with my clown that I have now had for 2+ years. I really dont know for sure he had ick, but had white spots as it were ick off and on for 2 months. Since that (been 2 years ago) I have seen no other symptons.
Also I do have a question that I have not seen addressed. If ick is prevelant, then why dont fish in the ocean ALL die off? is there something to be said for nature taking care of itself? I do beleive that fish can fight off ick just like humans can fight off a cold or disease??? Again, Im keeping an open mind.
Also I will ask as I didnt get a response on my prev question. Are ALL fish from the main QT if one has ick? Why treat a fish that doesnt show symptons? That would be like treating us for cancer when we may/may not have it.
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:34 PM   #13
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Also I do have a question that I have not seen addressed. If ick is prevelant, then why dont fish in the ocean ALL die off?
The ocean is not a closed system where the parasites can multiply and overwhelm an animal. Fish still get parasites in the ocean, but they fall off in the trophant stage and the fish swims away. With 4 walls around the area, there is no where for the fish to go. As the parasites cycle and cycle, they come in greater numbers and eventually overwhelm the animal(s).
Sure some fish are less susceptible and some can build up an eventual immunity. The problem is someday when you introduce an new fish that does not have this immunity, that fish could become quickly infected.
I put my entire stock through a treatment for velvet a little over a year ago. I lost 3 fish within 24 hours while trying to set up a big enough qt system to house them all while several of the fish never showed any symptoms.

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Are ALL fish from the main QT if one has ick? Why treat a fish that doesnt show symptons? That would be like treating us for cancer when we may/may not have it.
Absolutely need to move them all. Even if a fish does not show symptoms, it can still be a host and allow the parasite to survive. It isn't like cancer, its like a typical parasite. If there is a host for it, it can and most likely will survive and reinfect your fish when you put them back in.
HTH
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:37 PM   #14
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In theory if it didn't have ick you could probably put it in a second QT. I think the main emphasis is to get all of your fish out of your main so that the parasite starves and dies off.
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:38 PM   #15
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The fish stores here know me well and they tell me that most of the ick meds are crap and not to buy them but rather if I am going to treat do it with copper.
BTW, I agree with them 100%.... Or hyposalinity is a good treatment, especially for copper sensative fish like Tangs and such.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:53 PM   #16
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Well I have put my tang through copper (Seachem) once before so I know he can make it. I dont see to many people having very good luck with the hypo.
As far as setting up a QT....I have one ready to go at all times. All I have to do is get water from my main, get the spounge out of the sump and Im ready. Another reason I do NOT want a lot of fish. Otherwise you have to have a large QT tank which requires more copper, salt, etc...Im at 4 small 4 in a 100 gallon.
What I would like to know is the success rate of people here with doing a full QT of all of their fish AND as well as if there is anyone that their fish showed ick, didnt QT them and then not having issues down the road.
One of my friends said he has had ick in his tank for years and every time he does a water change, his tangs get ick. Also he adds that when he sticks his hands in the tank and does any maint work, they shows signs of ick. But he has never lost any fish to it. He says after a couple of days, the signs go away and the fish are as normal. WHy would this be?
Again Im torn as to wait and see what happens vs throwing all 4 fish in copper for 4-6 weeks plus another 2 just because....thats 8 weeks in a very small tank. AND there is no guarentee that this is long enough. Pretty soon you are doing this over and over as I have seen so many on this board do...again just frustrated there is no cookie cutter way of approaching this.
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:00 PM   #17
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I dont see to many people having very good luck with the hypo.
Just wanted to add that hypo is a very good treatment. Have used it myself and it worked fine.
Usually failure comes from inaccurate SPG readings or failure to maintain the treatment level for a long enough period of time.
Cupramine is an excellent choice though.
IMO curing the fish is the easy part, the hard part is getting it out of the main. Its hard to remain patient for the whole 6 weeks.
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:16 PM   #18
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Well if I do this, I will probably do 7 weeks and maybe even 8. Like I said I have seen to many people do the hypo and or do 4-6 weeks and it not work. But you are right they do not probably use the refractometer and use the little arm plastic thing...cant think of the name of it.
Im not that concerned about getting 4 fish out of the main. I know it will take a bit but I will just do a water change, use that water to put some of my LR into and then catch the fish and use the same water for the QT.
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:44 PM   #19
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Sorry, I mean't getting the parasite out of the main.
Catching the fish is no fun either, really stressful for both parties.
I agree, the 4-6 week period is not enough. I (at least lately) alway suggest at least 6 weeks.
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:41 PM   #20
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yes I understood you...I guess I see curing the fish as the hard part. Very frustrating to say the least. AND if I do engage in this and treat and leave the tank fallow, then I still have the same problem i will be even more frustrated!
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