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Old 02-12-2005, 01:33 PM   #71
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Well I tested it this morning and its at .3 to .4.....get higher...should I do water changes every day? Should I do like bacteria in a bottle? Im going to rinse the sponges for sure as I didnt think about this. They have been in my sump for 6+ months now. I will rinse them in SW today. The fish are acting fine as well...any other suggestions? Im 2+ weeks into the QT so I have a long ways to go. ANy and all help is appreciated.
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Old 02-12-2005, 01:38 PM   #72
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See above before reading this post....another question I have is I have more spounges in my sump from my main...Should I get them out - but the concern is the ick in there?? I would be brining something from my main to my QT...
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Old 02-12-2005, 01:44 PM   #73
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Well I tested it this morning and its at .3 to .4.....get higher...should I do water changes every day? Should I do like bacteria in a bottle? Im going to rinse the sponges for sure as I didnt think about this. They have been in my sump for 6+ months now. I will rinse them in SW today. The fish are acting fine as well...any other suggestions? Im 2+ weeks into the QT so I have a long ways to go. ANy and all help is appreciated.
More water changes will help immensely. As far as your readings, have you added the water conditioner? If so, it could be what's causing your elevated readings. As I said, most test kit results will be skewed greatly by these "detoxifiers".

Quote:
See above before reading this post....another question I have is I have more spounges in my sump from my main...Should I get them out - but the concern is the ick in there?? I would be brining something from my main to my QT..
Never mix anything from one tank to the other. Once treatment starts you can add nothing in terms of new livestock or items transfered from the main. In effectively puts you back at day one.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 02-12-2005, 01:56 PM   #74
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Ok So I will continue with the water changes then I guess daily. I dont mind doing this I guess if it is what it takes...dont take a lot of time really.
No I have NOT added anything as far as water conditioner.....I just finished rinsing my spounges in new SW that I add to the QT tank. Plus just syphoned out a little pitcher of water out as well.
Should I add like Prime or something? what did I do wrong to cause this so I can avoid in the future? Will the bacteria eventually catch up to knock down the trites? How long does this take? Also lastly how much of a water change should I do daily for a 30 gallon?
Thanks Steve for all the help and patience...
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:18 PM   #75
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Well I was wrong....for some reason my QT is going through a mini cycle. I have ammonia of .5 and trites of .2 and less than 10 trates. SO, with this said I drove 60 miles to get some Turbo Start. The guy I deal with in the LFS store said this would be the only thing I could really do other than prime given that Im doing hypo and my salinity is at 1.009. Im in a vice for sure here. I dont know what else to do. I have NO idea why my tank would be cycling for sure since I did the same format as I did last time when I had a QT tank. I used water from my main, seeded spounges, etc....so I bought some "bacteria in a bottle" and prime. I have NOT used the prime yet. Im wondering if I should...
Please help...
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Old 02-12-2005, 07:36 PM   #76
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Most likely from the recently cleaned sponge. Under normal circumstances it would not have been a concern but I always recommend using removed tank water when cleaning filter material. In a QT moreso. Even though you used SW, bacteria respond to changes in pH just as easily as FW. File that one away for future reference.

Your best resource right now is more water changes. 3x a day if needs be. It's the best way to control the toxic levels until things get back to normal. I would hold off on any additives for now. The "bacteria in a bottle" isn't going to do much.

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Old 02-12-2005, 07:48 PM   #77
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Im not questioning you at all, but rather trying to understand this...if I keep doing water changes, then this will only prolong the cycle wont it? Doesnt things like Prime work? And Turbostart?
Also I washed the spounges in new SW that I have been adding to my QT...its the same PH and temp....
Realistically what will happen? I have had a small spike before and simply used Prime and it took it down without any problems and lost no fish. I just dont see how things will get better with water changes as this is eventually going to make it worse wont it? Im very frustrated as you can tell. I have put a ton of work into this and its not working as it did last time. sorry for being a pain
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:12 PM   #78
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Water changes do not impede, slow down or otherwise hinder nitrosomonas from forming unless the ammonia source is completely removed. All you will be doing is diluting it. Fish by nature excrete ammonia, it's the nature of the beast so to speak. Therefore your ammonia source is always present and the bacteria will be fed.

You can use the Prime if you wish it won't harm anything by any means. It will however hinder your ability to read accurate levels of NH3 and NO2 without a test kit that reads past the now altered (but not removed) toxins.

If you do the water changes instead, monitoring the levels as you go you will know when you have been successful and the bacteria is doing it's job.

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Old 02-12-2005, 11:33 PM   #79
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Ok so how much of a water change per day do I need to do?
What test kit do I need to monitor the water if I add Prime?
How long does it take to knock down the ammonia and such? I have been in this for 3 years and I guess the most frustrating thing is there are so many theories as to how to do things. I have always heard that if you continue to do water changes, this only prolongs the cycle from completing. Also do I wash the PVC off when it starts turning brown in the tank? Or do I leave it? Im afraid to do anything now. This is the worst thing I think that I have ever created. I didnt have this much trouble even my first year when I started. I guess its because I have read so much and it seems there are just so many things you can do wrong in this hobby and really only one way to do it right. And unfortunately you dont know its wrong until you have messed up.
Also my fish are acting as if nothing is wrong. its weird...
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Old 02-13-2005, 03:18 AM   #80
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Ok so how much of a water change per day do I need to do?
Do 20-25% water changes 2x a day until the ammonia doesn't register.

Quote:
What test kit do I need to monitor the water if I add Prime?
Seachem's Multitest kits are best in these cases but a salicylate kit will work. You just need to be sure to take the reading immediately. You can read the FAQ here...
http://seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

Quote:
How long does it take to knock down the ammonia and such? I have been in this for 3 years and I guess the most frustrating thing is there are so many theories as to how to do things. I have always heard that if you continue to do water changes, this only prolongs the cycle from completing.
As I said, as long as there is an ammonia source (fish in this case) the bacteria will be fed so don't worry about that part. Understanding how bacteria feed and expell waste is where people get led astray in these matters. In regards to cycling in general, water changes will only affect the cycle if you remove the food/nutrient sources. Limiting them does not prolong or deter it in any way. As long as there is even trace amounts of ammonia registering, there is a food source. Having larger amounts of ammonia does not make a tank cycle any better.

Look at it this way. If you cycle a tank via the fishless method, you reach a certain ammonia level, it subsides then the nitrite and nitrate. That's the basics of the nitrification. The one thing missed by many is the ammonia source is usually also depleted by this time. Bacteria grows to meet the food source provided. So in the long run, it doesn't matter how much ammonia/nutrient you start out with. By the time a biological is added to the system the level of nitrosomonas and nitrobacter has diminished some anyway and must again "grow" to meet the new deman and each waste producing animal added afterwards. It is not "always present" in the numbers needed until the food source is provided.

If you are cycling in essence a dead tank from scratch, no LR or LS, water changes would be pointless simpley because there's no need.

If using fresh or not fully cured rock I would highly recommend water changes. You would not be removing the nutrient simpley limiting it's levels. It does not impeded a proper cycle in any regard but you would be preserving the much desired hitchikers and bugs within the rock.

Quote:
Also do I wash the PVC off when it starts turning brown in the tank? Or do I leave it? Im afraid to do anything now.
Unless they are interfering with water quality, leave them be. A QT has very limited surface areas so baterial realestate is at a premium. Unlike the sponge they are not really pourus and do not trap debris. The algae growing on them is somewhat a good sign. It means the biofilter is actually maturing.

Cheers
Steve
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