Another Ick question...

[fishman]

Steve
Sorry I came across as griping back...not it at all. Im just saying that literally Im changing all of the water out per day for the most part. Im doing 40% in the AM and 40% in the PM so this is a lot per day. I guess what your saying makes a lot of sense. I checked it tonight and the ammonia is around 10 and I rinsed one of the HOB filters last night so maybe this is it...I wouldnt think so but maybe it is.
Once Im done with this, Im going to put these fish back in the main and not let anything from anywhere get in there. Everything will be QT from now on.
Thanks
D

 

[fishman]

Steve
Well I can say that so far Im not a big fan of the hypo...I started raising the salinity .001 per day and today my dottieback died. Now my tang is not eating well either. Im using a refract so Im good there. 1 fish down and 3 to go...hate this hobby sometimes. I have been through *%^%&^% for 7 weeks now and come down to the end only to have 1 fish die and one not doing so well. I have a LONG way to go as well. Im only at 1.015. My main is 1.023.
Sorry for venting but I really feel copper is the way to go...seems to be a lot less stressful too. Plus im batteling ammonia again. Its at 10 or less and 0 trites...dont know what to do at this point. Hold the salinity or keep moving up.

 

[steve-s]

Sorry for your loss

The rise in salinity should not be an issue if done at the pace you've indicated. Might want to only raise it 0.001 every second day if you think it's stressing the fish. How are you raising the salinity?

Sorry for venting but I really feel copper is the way to go...seems to be a lot less stressful too.

Venting is fine, do it myself.
As far as copper use is concerned, it would not really have ensured any better of an outcome. In fact it could easily have been worse. Most if not all of what you've gone through so far wouldn't be much different. The fish on the otherhand have not been exsposed to a toxic substance and will be better off for it. I know it's hard to see that now but it's true.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Steve
I have a 35 gallon trash can in the garage that I mix all of my salt water into. I keep it full at the salinity level thats in the QT tank. Then with me doing 2 water changes a day, I will simply raise the salinity of the can water and then when I do a water change, it raises it in the tank. But the way I see it, Im doing 30-50% x 2 a day. So in reality Im only raising the salinity 1/2 point in the AM and 1/2 at night.
Im going to take is slow on the salinity. However my tank is at 1.023...at what point should I not worry with regards to just starting to add water to the bucket for instance when I get ready to put them in the tank? Should I take the QT tank all the way up to 1.023?
Also another question...if copper destroys the bacteria base, and I didnt have much of a problem when I used it before, why am I batteling the ammonia this time WITHOUT copper? In other words, I have a ton of PVC in the tank as well as 2 spounges, and 2 HOB filters. I should have plenty of space for the good bacteria to grow and its not....why?
ALso let me rephrase something. So far I have not seen any ick spots on the fish to this point. However I really feel the raising of the salinity killed the dottieback...SO I know hypo works..at least so far it appears to have.
Thanks again for all the patience...

 

[steve-s]

Also another question...if copper destroys the bacteria base, and I didnt have much of a problem when I used it before, why am I batteling the ammonia this time WITHOUT copper? In other words, I have a ton of PVC in the tank as well as 2 spounges, and 2 HOB filters. I should have plenty of space for the good bacteria to grow and its not....why?

Honestly I don't understand why unless I/you have missed a piece of the puzzle. It really comes down to bioload vs available space. Water changes would almost always still be needed. As far as the copper goes, it's not alway the case depending on the type of copper used. Cupramine especially is not toxic to the biological filter base as are some brands of chelates.

I wish I could give you a "this is it" answer but I think some part of the puzzle is missing. :?

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Well I seeded my QT from the beginning with spounges from my main...I used main tank water to start the QT...I feed every other day. I put a small amt of nori on a clip soaked and dried in selcon, zoe, vitamin C, and garlic each day for my tang. I rinse the HOB filters 1-2 times per week...but not vigerously. Also I rinse them in the tank water. I syphon out all of the crap and nori from the bottom each morning and night...I do 2 water changes each day....10-15 gallons each time. And there are only 4 small fish (before the dottieback died) and now there are 3 in a 30 gallon long. The PH stays around 7.9 to 8.3...mostly around 8-8.2. Temp at 80. I have 12 peices of PVC (3 and 4 inch) in the bottom of the tank with 2 spounges sticking out of them as well....I also use Prime as well...I use a small dropper full each time I do a water change....I dont know what else it would be. Im so confused as I really dont want to have to battle this once I decide to get other new fish later. This makes me not want a QT tank. I meet so many people that literally throw the new fish right in their tanks and have 0 problems. Very frustrating...any ideas now??

 

[steve-s]

any ideas now??

Yup....

I have 12 peices of PVC (3 and 4 inch) in the bottom of the tank with 2 spounges sticking out of them as well....

These don't need to be there and are a high potential for waste collection.

I also use Prime as well...I use a small dropper full each time I do a water change....

What brand of test kits are you using to measure the 3 nitogens...

Q: I am using Prime™ to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything, in fact it looks like it added ammonia! What is going on?
A: A Nessler based kit will not read ammonia properly if you are using Prime™... it will look "off scale", sort of a muddy brown (incidentally a Nessler kit will not work with any other products similar to Prime™). A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime™), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away. However, the best solution is to use our MultiTest: Ammonia™ kit... it uses a gas exchange sensor system which is not affected by the presence of Prime™ or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (which is both the free and ionized forms of ammonia (the ionized form is not toxic)).

 

[fishman]

The spounges in the tank I rinse as well....SO pull them out? This is what I seeded my tank with.
The test kits are by Aquarium Systems (powder based) or salicylate test kit in your words....
Also I have one of the hang in the tank tags that detects ammonia....reads nothing the whole time its been in there.

 

[fishman]

Steve
Also what does the phrase in the little blip you pasted for me...what does this mean?

A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime™), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away.

 

[steve-s]

so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away.

It means don't blink. The test kit will continue to change color even if there is no ammonia present. The first color change is the one to go by.

Also I have one of the hang in the tank tags that detects ammonia....reads nothing the whole time its been in there.

Which brand of ammonia tab/sensor is it? If the Seachem ammonia alert badge, you have been getting false readings from your test kit all along.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Steve
The first color change would indicate 0 on any tank...reason I say this is it goes from 0 up to 40...so it goes from a puke green to light green to medium to dark. I usually wait for about 15 minutes and then take the reading. I guess I dont understand that if I shake the little test vile, it takes about 5 minutes for any color to develope...So what does this mean?
Also yes its a Seachem ammonia badge. I think I may order some Seachem test kits so I will know for sure. I only have about 1 week left in the QT as Im at 1.017...
Also can you answer this. If my main is at 1.023, do I need the QT to match it and then acclimate the QT water to the main?
Thanks!

 

[steve-s]

Steve
The first color change would indicate 0 on any tank...reason I say this is it goes from 0 up to 40...so it goes from a puke green to light green to medium to dark. I usually wait for about 15 minutes and then take the reading. I guess I dont understand that if I shake the little test vile, it takes about 5 minutes for any color to develope...So what does this mean?

It means that most likely the test kit is not reading properly due to the Prime additions. Given the fact your using the Ammonia Alert badge and it has not shown any signs of ammonia there most likely isn't any. The badge will read correctly when Prime is being used.

Also can you answer this. If my main is at 1.023, do I need the QT to match it and then acclimate the QT water to the main?
Thanks!

It's best if you bring up the QT to match the main.

Cheers
Steve