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Old 01-11-2008, 09:32 AM   #1
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I am a bit confused. I have a 20 Gallon QT tank. I put 3 Pajama Cardinals in last week (Friday to be exact). (I did drip acclimation) I put CLOUT in there as a precaution, they looked fine..everyone is happy. 10 minutes later, one was dead. It seemed to me that the little guy could never swim to the bottom, swim bladder broke? I don't know. Now these 3 Cardinals have been in the LFS for at least 3 weeks and they were fine. I test my water and it is perfect, I take a sample to the fish store (so they can test and give me credit to get another fish) and water tests fine so we chalked it up to stress. I get another Pajama Cardinal and once again so excited. I drip acclimate him and all is well. Last night I come home and one of the original ones (that has been there 1 week) is dead. Now this guy has been in there since the beginning..doing pretty good..not eating alot but eating. I noticed he lost his color a bit so we've been adding vitamins to his mysis shrimp. So, I test the water again and of course, no ammonia..no nitrite..10ppm nitrate..salinity 1.023..temp 78..Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I have bought 5 fish so far and 2 out of 5 have died (at the rate that I'm going, the fish are going to think they are going home with a fish serial killer) Does anyone have any suggestions at all? Do you think it is the CLOUT medicine that I gave him?

The fish store that I go to is very clean, very knowledgeable and their fish always look really good. They are very good about not just selling fish to sell fish. They try to give you good advice and match your fish to your needs and the tanks needs. I have traveled all around town to see if there is a better one and the others can't compare. Any help in this matter would turn my frown upside down.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:30 AM   #2
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Check for stray voltage , this is one of those things that could come from a heater ,PH , or filter ...Also how are you checking your SPG with a refractometer ... it could be high or low if using a hydrometer
Also dont add anything to the water , I think it could be the clout killing them since it is an med and you could be overdosing them...if they dont show signs of anything wrong dont add anything .... Just keep them in QT and there H20 quailty high this will help them fight any thing they may have .... also try feeding foods that are soaked in garlic as this will trigger a stronger feeding response. Dont feed fish the first day home in qt wait a few days so that they are less stressed and more likely to eat from hunger ....
I would reset up the qt and clean all equipment and change the filter pads/carbon to remove any clout left over . IF reset up is not an option do a 50% water change and 25% weekly there after or several 10% H20 changes through out the week ...
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:35 AM   #3
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Clout is not a medication I would dose willingly as a general "cure all" as it can be rather harsh and Pajama Cardinals are a fish I'd consider somewhat sensitive during the acclimation/quarantine period. I would first perform a 50% water change and run some carbon to remove residual medication. As for medications, Gel-Tek makes a liquid dewormer called Ultra Cure PX (Praziquantel) that food can be soaked in. For protozoans, a longterm Formalin bath in the quarantine tank can be administered.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:05 AM   #4
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I am checking my SPG with a refractometer and I also verified that it was in fact calibrated correctly. I didn't even think of stray voltage! I will also check that.
As for the clout, I was kind of suspecting that. One of the guys at the LFS said to dose meds during the quarantine for precautionary measures. Everything I have read about QT stated it was just to quarantine them and look for any issues thing, not dosing meds without any symptoms. I really appreciate all of the information you both provided. I did add the carbon filter so I will perform a 50% water change tonight.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:13 AM   #5
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Quarantine tanks are preventative measures in keeping your main display parasite free. I always make the assumption that fish will come in with internal parasites and expect protozoans to eventually rear their ugly heads. There is nothing wrong with preventative treatments as long as you know what you are dosing, why it is being dosed, and the cause/effects of the medications.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:20 AM   #6
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Yeah. I think I need to study up alot more on that so I do not cause the fish any harm. It's is expensive and disappointing to feel like you have caused a fish any harm.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:55 AM   #7
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If it helps any, I lost two cardinals in quarantine before the third one "took." Never did understand what the deal was, as other fish after that went in and came out fine. I just chalked it up to bad luck.

I don't use any meds in my QT during the initial "coming home" quarantine. I just leave them in there for 4 weeks +, and see if they develop any issues. If they do, then I'd medicate. Even though the meds claim to be safe, I still think they stress the fish. As someone else mentioned, meds are OK if you know what you're treating.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:56 AM   #8
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So Innovator, what regimen do you follow in QT treatments? Ultra Cure PX and Formalin? Do others follow a preventative meds schedule during quarantine, or do most not dose meds and just watch for issues?
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:21 PM   #9
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Did you follow these instructions?
"Use 1 tablet for every 10 gallons every 24 hours for at least 4 days. Remove carbon from filter. Using a disposable cup, fill halfway with water and dissolve one tablet for every 10 gallons. Pour throughout the aquarium. If one treatment is inadequate, change 25 percent of the tank water and treat again. Replace carbon 24 hours after last treatment. If at any time during treatment fish experience stress, change 75 percent of the water immediately."
It also states not to use in a tank with LR or ornamental invertebrates (just for future reference).
I didn't see where you did any PWCs, so you may have overdosed the tank.
You can also ask your LFS how the fish were captured. Cyanide poisoning sometimes is the cause of sudden deaths.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:30 PM   #10
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The back of the box it did not say "every 24 hours for at least 4 days". The rest of what you typed is what the box said word for word, and I followed the instructions exactly. I replaced the carbon filter 24 hours after the first treatment. I did a 25% PWC roughly 4 days later (standard weekly water change). None of the fish showed signs of distress either during treatment or after (including the PWC), but the one that died was roughly 24 hours after the PWC. I don't think the tank was overdosed as I only administered a single treatment using 2 tablets (20 gal QT).

The QT tank is bare with the exception of a few pieces of PVC pipe and a fake coral (the resin type that are not supposed to adsorb anything).

I'll ask the LFS how their fish are captured, I would sure hope they are not buying from suppliers that capture via cyanide poisoning.
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