Blah.. depressing

[catmel]

Well, I'm very depressed. Sorry for posting this in two places, I realized this is probably the better spot for it..

I went out and bought two small tank raised clowns yesterday. One had died this morning The other, as of right now is fine, out swimming around ok, so far so good for it I think. I'm so upset.. I made sure water parameters were OK before I added them, I acclimated as suggested.. I tested the water again after I noticed the fish had been missing for a few hours and discovered it had died..under the rock. I do want to note yesterday after a few hours the one fish ate, the other wasn't interested.

PH is 8.2-8.3 ammonia at 0, maybe just slightly above - so hard to tell, certainly not at 0.25ppm color though, nitrite at 0, and nitrate between 10-20ppm. specific grav between 1.022 and 1.023. Temp had risen to 80 with the light on 10am-10pm ( was about 78 this morning) whats worse.. I had got my two fish from Pet supplies plus, great people and very helpful, but apparently they have a live fish guarantee on freshwater fish only. blah. $20 gone and a poor dead clown..sigh..this is depressing... is it possible this guy died of natural causes? my water seems to be good.. I want to make sure it was nothing I did, I was so careful before putting these guys in..

it seems silly getting attached to a fish after just a day.. oh well

 

[pat8you]

Hard to say. Seems like you did everything right from what you posted. Some times the stress of transferring to a new tank is just to much and they don't make it. How long did you acclimate them?

 

[neilanh]

He could've been in bad shape before you ever got him, and the stress of moving just put him over the edge.

Sorry for your loss

 

[happygirl65]

It's not silly to get attached to a fish. You had hopes and expectations that were not fulfilled. Of course you would be dissapointed. Sorry for your loss.

I would call the store and explain what happened. If you escalate things you might be able to get them to do something for you.

I am not really exerienced with SW fish but have purchased some expensive discus etc and I can tell you that generally speaking a fish death so quickly was likely not a healthy specimen to begin with.

 

[catmel]

He seemed to be pretty good color, didnt look sickly or anything really when I brought him home. I did notice he was hanging out at the surface a lot, but figured he was checking out the tank. Although I must say the guy at the LFS did chase them around a good bit trying to catch them.

I acclimated them for 30 minutes. I floated the bag unopened for 15 mins, then opened the bag and put small amounts of tank water in for 15 mins then released.

the other fish right now is still alive.. he seems a bit frantic swimming around, but he did eat a few pellets around 8pm.

Sounds like the one poor little guy must have died from stress. I did notice he seemed to be hiding a lot as opposed to this one thats still alive.

Im going to call the LFS tomorrow and see if they can do anything for me. I know they have no guarantee, which really puts me away from buying any expensive fish ever there, ( wont anytime soon anyhow), but I guess its worth calling them.. I'm still so surprized this guy died so soon. I've kept lots of freshwater fish in the past and none had died so quickly other than when I was 4 and had a beta in a little bowl.. hhmthh.. oh well just hope this little guy will be ok. Makes me feel a little better knowing I did what I could at least..

 

[pat8you]

I have to agree with happygirl. Usually the fish has to be in the tank a big longer for you water conditions or something of that nature to kill the fish. He must not have been doing real good before he was in your tank.

You may want to try and acclimate them for a little longer next time. Clowns are generally hardy fish and that acclimation probably wouldn't kill him but it does help reduce the stress of the move to acclimate them over a longer period of time. especially some of the more sensitive fish. also it seems to help if you keep the lights out for a while if you haven't tried that before. Sorry to hear about your fish. I had something similar happen to me and i was pretty bummed about it as well

 

[neilanh]

I recommend switching to the drip acclimation method. I let the bag float for about 20 minutes, then place the fish in a pitcher or bucket or something. Use airline tubing and a valve (or just knot the tubing), create a siphon from your tank, and let it drip into the bag. I run 3-4 drips per second for an hour.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Agree that giving the drip method a try next time might be good. Did you measure the LFS water's salinity when you opened the bag? I always do, just so I know how much of a difference I've got between my quarantine tank and the LFS water. Then you can vary the drip speed/time depending on the difference.

Even with that said, it sounds like you just have some bad luck. I've got 6 fish in my tank right now and am done stocking. It took me a year to fully stock it. But I bought 11 fish over that year. Every fish you buy isn't going to make it... that's just the way it works. It sucks... but it's life. Somewhere (think it was Fenner's book) I read that the mortality rate between coming out of the ocean and getting to your LFS is around 90%. I try to ignore that fact when I go into a LFS.

Sorry for your loss... it stinks even if you've only had it a day.

 

[ryshark]

I like the idea about measuring the parameters of the water from the LFS. The last time I bought a fish was also the very first time I ever did check the salinity of the water in the bag. The water in the bag measured 1.018 and I have my tank set at 1.025. A rise of .007 is a lot in one day and very hard on the fish. Luckily I caught this and just dropped the salinity in my QT down to 1.020 and then started the acclimation process. So I like that bit of advice of checking the LFS water.

I too think you had an unhealthy specimen. Keep us posted on the other guy and watch that ammonia level. It really should be a true 0.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

That's another good point ryshark... having a QT not only allows you quarantine the fish so you don't spread disease to the main tank, but it allows you to better match your water parameters to the LFS water and minimize the acclimation. It's been a while since I've added fish, and I'd forgotten about that.

 

[catmel]

thanks for all your replies. I hadn't thought about a QT tank yet because of these being my first fish, although now I do see its still a great idea. I think I will try drip acclimation as well to help ease stress.

I think I just got unlucky, as of right now the other fish is eating ( ate this morning ) and seems to be siwmming around well and not hiding.

I do have to admit when I did buy the fish, as stated earlier, I had went to go get some fish food in another isle as the person was getting the first fish I had chosen ( i had no idea he was going ahead and getting the fish) - he chased that one around quite a bit because it was hiding behind rocks, and of course that was the one that ended up dying. Maybe coincidence, but I wont leave the tankside next time.

anyhow, thats that, hopefully with your suggestions my next llil clown will be ok, I know I did everything I could. Thanks again for being so helpful / understanding. Coming from the veterinary field, its a bit frustrating when you can't help a suffering animal..

 

[ryshark]

I don't think you did anything wrong, just got unlucky. The LFS guy may have injured the fish while trying to catch it. Some of the LFS are kind of rough when it comes to that. Maybe this did happen when you walked away for a sec.

 

[catmel]

Well, maybe just really bad luck. I am 100% for sure getting a hospital tank.

When the other fish died, I could find nothing wrong with it other than it had passed away. No spots, signs of disease or anything.. Looking at the other clown in my tank now, he seems to be acting normal, not scratching on anything, and even has been eating, but Ive noticed tiny little spots on him on the upper part of his back. I'm so worried now ( perhaps parinoid.. but..) I hope to god this isnt ich or velvet. Ill try and get pics tonight.

If it is ich, I have 60# of LR, and argonite sand. with no inverts and no other fish, would it be ok to treat in the tank? I know its ideal to have a QT tank, but is it possible to treat in my tank? if so whats the safest way?

if I absolutely have to get a QT, and only plan on having the one small clown in there.. what size can I use? would a 5 gal be ok or do I really need bigger?

Im so frustrated. one dead fish and one with probable ich for my first two fish. AUGH.

speaking of which, what is the easiest way to post a pic in the posts here?

 

[pat8you]

its generally not a great idea to treat in the tank. If the medicine is copper based which i think ich meds might be then you wouldn't not be able to put any corals or inverts in the tank down the road. Lots of critters are sensitive to copper and if you treat in the tank the copper will stay in the tank and be enough to kill them. If it is ich i would try to separate him out and treat him there. As long as you have nothing else in the tank leave the clown in the QT for i think 6+ weeks (others will either confirm of correct me here) because that will be long enough that the ich cannot survive with out a host.

 

[ryshark]

First you need to determine if it is truely ich or not. It may not even be ich. Ich looks like the fish got salt sprinkled on it. Figure out how to get pictures on here. I think 5-gallons is big enough for just one clown, considering I had to make due with a 10-gallon hospital for 2-clowns and 1-tang and it all worked out ok. Just make sure to keep an eye on the water parameters and do lots of pwc. If it is ich, your 2-choices are hyposalinity(which I did) or copper, both choices in a QT. Oh, and the worst part..............if it is ich, you will have to keep the main tank fallow with no fish for 8-weeks. You could add snails and shrimp though.

 

[catmel]

I just seem to have horrible luck so far. If I hadnt spent so much money already I'd almost be inclined to sell everything.. sigh.. so discouraging.

One fish dead and one fish with ich within 2 days of buying them as my first fish. I thought about seeing if I could return the fish, but just dont think I could do that.. who knows what would happen. And if I could Id have to leave my main tank barron for another 6 weeks.. I dont know if I can successfully treat it, but I can try.

What size qt tank do I need? I dont plan on having more than this one fish for at least a few months.. would a 5 gal qt be ok for 1 clown? And when starting to QT, is it ok to use the water from my tank? ( I dont imagine the cysts have had time to fall of yet, just noticed the spots today) or should I put in fresh saltwater? I will be setting this up tomorrow so I can start treatment asap.

Would copper treatment be ok? Ive read about hyposalinity, but not sure if its possible with my work schedule.

thanks for all the help in this really stressful and frustrating time.. bleh.

 

[ryshark]

If you decide to QT use water from your main. See my post above. Oh and if you decide copper over hypo, then use cupramine.

 

[catmel]

Ich doesnt attack snails or shrimp?

Im pretty sure it is, I wish I could take a picture. Lots of little white spots on his upper part of the back and fins. Poor guy. Hes hanging out a lot at the surface tonight. I hope he doesnt die before I can start treatment tomorrow

Even though hes the first fish Ive put in there, and it probably came from the LFS ( I only got him this past sunday) I imagine im going to have to leave the tank barron for 4-6 weeks still hm? blah.


Ok finally figured out how to tkae a good pic and add it... sure looks like ich unfortunatly.

 

[ryshark]

Unfortunately that does look like ich to me too. Read about your various choices. Hypo or Copper ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Hyposalinity Treatment

Inverts do not get it, so snails and shrimp are fine.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Yup... sorry - that's ich. Hard way to learn why quarantine tanks are really a required thing in this hobby.

The link ryshark gave you is the absolute best instructions on hyposalinity. Unless you have some funky work schedule where you're gone weeks at a time, I don't know why you couldn't do it.

The work that's going to be a drag is constantly monitoring your water parameters because you're putting the fish into a non-cycled tank. Do you have any type of filter unit on your main tank that you can transfer over to a QT to give it a quick boost of established bacteria? If you go copper, the bacteria, I believe, will die off, but with hyposalinity you have a better chance of keeping the bacteria. Either way, you'll have to have some salt water mixed up and ready to go in case you need to do daily water changes to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels down. It's a pain... but it's doable!