Clown fish.. Ich?

[roka64]

I am of the opinion that ich is present in all systems.

I know there is speculation on this, but if the tank goes fallow for 8 weeks and the ich starves/dies, where would the new ich come from?

 

[Fluff]

There wouldn't be any ich if you fallow your system and treat the fish. That is the only way to be totally 100% ich free.

They would be fine in a 10gal, just keep up on water changes and testing since you will in essence, be cycling the new tank with the sick fish. Also, it's a good idea to put in some flowerpots or pvc elbows. This gives the fish places to hide as well as area for good bacteria to grow. Good luck.

Oh, and the article I sent you gives you instructions. Also, at the bottom of the article are three links to informative sites on battling ich. Good luck.

 

[quixand]

I spoke with my LFS owner who have over 20 years in the hobby/business ( I.e not a kid working at the store ) and she suggested crashing the SG in one water change to 1.019.

She said the sudden water SG would kill the Ich 100% of the time, that the inverts would be ok, and to keep it at these levels for a week. Then water change back to 1.021-1.022. Said my current SG of 1.025 was alittle on the high side, and to prevent Ich, a lower SG is better. Temp of 80 degrees was fine, and to sup the food with garlic as an immune booster.

Thoughts?

 

[roka64]

I think you have recieved good advice with the QT and hypo, if you want to listen to your LFS, I'm sure they will be happy to make more money off of you when you have to replace all of your livestock. Let us know how/if it works.....

 

[quixand]

*edit*

You know what. I'm just gonna QT them. I called a local pet store and their 10 gallon tank was only 11 bucks. LOL I can swing that. Just need to find a place to keep it. I'll have to ghetto the whole thing though LOL. Do I NEED a new filter and airstone etc?

 

[melosu58]

I spoke with my LFS owner who have over 20 years in the hobby/business ( I.e not a kid working at the store ) and she suggested crashing the SG in one water change to 1.019.

She said the sudden water SG would kill the Ich 100% of the time, that the inverts would be ok, and to keep it at these levels for a week. Then water change back to 1.021-1.022. Said my current SG of 1.025 was alittle on the high side, and to prevent Ich, a lower SG is better. Temp of 80 degrees was fine, and to sup the food with garlic as an immune booster.

Thoughts?

8O

 

[quixand]

While I enjoy the look of the surprised smilie, if you explained your surprise, it would be much more helpful.

 

[roka64]

Said my current SG of 1.025 was alittle on the high side, and to prevent Ich, a lower SG is better. Temp of 80 degrees was fine, and to sup the food with garlic as an immune booster.

There is actually a little decent advice, in this quote. The first part of this statement is incorrect. 1.025 is about the normal salinity, especially for reef tanks. Personally, I keep my 55G FOWLR at 1.020, to help prevent stress. I also use the garlic, to both boost their immune systems and promote eating.
As for the rest of the statement, personally, I wouldn't attempt it....But I don't have 20 years of experience, either....

 

[quixand]

Well....as I stated earlier in an edited post, I'm going to try the QT method.

I'll do a PWC tonight on my main tank, putting 5 gallons into the QT tank. I'll top off the main (getting the SG around 1.020-1.021 and keep it there from now on), and add 5 gallons to the QT of fresh water. Move the three fish to the QT tank, and start lowering the SG over the next couple days.

I'll of course document the entire procedure.

 

[Sadielynn]

I am of the opinion that ich is present in all systems.

I know there is speculation on this, but if the tank goes fallow for 8 weeks and the ich starves/dies, where would the new ich come from?

My reasons to believe this is that stuff can stay dormant for so long.... That in and of itself does not mean it to be fact.... But I have also do the qt thing and gone fallow for 12 weeks (no corals at all it was in the beginning of our system)placed our clowns in qt for that time treated with garlic , hypo , the display we increased temp to 82* and hypO treated it as well since it was only live rock and sand. Since the parasites can not live in hypO then it should kill them right? Well we placed them into the system and the clowns developed ich .... So where it came from is any ones guess because nothing was added ... So I do believe it is in every system , but because it is opportunistic and the clowns were healthy due to the stuffing their faces they fought it off . And survived .... they have not had it since....

 

[roka64]

Well....as I stated earlier in an edited post, I'm going to try the QT method.

Personally, I think that is probably the best idea. It will end up saving you money in the future.

Since the parasites can not live in hypO then it should kill them right? Well we placed them into the system and the clowns developed ich .... So where it came from is any ones guess because nothing was added ... So I do believe it is in every system , but because it is opportunistic and the clowns were healthy due to the stuffing their faces they fought it off . And survived .... they have not had it since....

I see what you are saying, and definitely thanks for sharing your experience. I don't want to direct this post into an ich discussion, as that would be unfair to the original poster.

 

[melosu58]

It`s not a smile it`s a picture of shock. I`m just messed up that an LFS would give advice like that. I dont have 20 yrs either but I do have half of that and enough to know that what she advised you is not going to work. Alot of people keep their tank there at 1.019 so what will that accomplish. It`s your tank and ultimately your choice. But IME and IMO it will not work. Hope all goes well no matter what you choose

 

[Fluff]

A quick drop like that will do exactly as she says, crash your tank. It will likely kill your inverts since they can't handle a quick adjustment like that. Adjusting the salinity will also affect your ph, again possibility killing everything in the tank. A "quick crash" will no doubt crash your biological filtration as well. The bacteria can tolerate a change in salinity and adjust to it but it has to be gradual. I'm glad to read that you will be getting a QT tank. If you are doing hypo, be sure to get a refractometer to measure your sg. If doing copper, I'd suggest cupramine. Also, be sure to test often and do water changes as necessary in your QT tank. The fish will be going through enough stress with the move and chemistry changes with treatment to have to tolerate doing all this in ammonia or nitrite soup. Good luck.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4743&N=2004+113016

 

[quixand]

Ok. So I got my 10 gallon QT up last night. Sponge filter, air pump, heater to 80 degrees.

Did a PWC on my main tank draining 5 gallons into the QT tank. Topped that off with 4 gallons of fresh mix, and a gallon of RO to bring the SG to roughly 1.020-21.
Added the two clowns, fed them garlic oil soaked flake. (Which they LOVED)

I left the damsel in the main. For a couple reasons. One, I couldn't catch him. And two, he had been in the tank since day one, and I feel he has a superior defense system as compared to the new clowns. If I notice anything on the damsel...then I'll move him.

 

[Fluff]

I left the damsel in the main. For a couple reasons. One, I couldn't catch him. And two, he had been in the tank since day one, and I feel he has a superior defense system as compared to the new clowns. If I notice anything on the damsel...then I'll move him.

Your gonna need to catch that damsel. Even if the damsel has a super immunity, he will be a carrier. When returning the clowns, chances are they will just be reinfected.

 

[roka64]

I agree with Fluff, since you already have the QT set up, why not just add the damsel, to prevent future outbreaks?

 

[quixand]

Well. Cause honestly, after reading the other threads.....does it matter?

Ich is always in the tank. The purpose of a QT tank is to kill the Ich off the clowns enough so they can get healthy, build a slight immunity to it, and be ready to fight Ich in the main tank.

By the logic of people on this board, fish spend their entire lives fighting Ich. The goal is to keep them as healthy as possible so they can resist the takeover.

Which is precisely what I'm doing. The damsel is VERY healthy. And I am supping his food also with garlic oil. If he hasn't succumed to it yet, he isn't going to.

 

[Fluff]

By the logic of people on this board, fish spend their entire lives fighting Ich. The goal is to keep them as healthy as possible so they can resist the takeover.

That is not my logic and I totally disagree with it. If your tank is fallow for 8wks, the parasite without a host will die off. During that 8wks, you'll be treating your fish and ridding them of the parasite, therefore your tank will be "clean". Do what you will but in a week or two after you reintroduce the clowns to the tank, I have a feeling you'll be starting a vicious cycle that can be avoided.

 

[roka64]

By the logic of people on this board, fish spend their entire lives fighting Ich. The goal is to keep them as healthy as possible so they can resist the takeover.

I wouldn't say that about all people on this board. I am by no means an expert. I found that info in only one book. I need to do some more research and get more info from more than one source.
I would definitely QT the damsel as well, Fluff had some great advice.

 

[quixand]

Ughhhh. I have NO idea how I'm gonna get it out of the tank. I tried at first for like 20 mins. I even tried feeding to get it above the LR. Little bastard wouldn't budge.