Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater & Reef - Sick Fish or Coral
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 10-13-2004, 01:06 PM   #1
AA Team Emeritus
 
austinsdad's Avatar


 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Accokeek, Maryland
Posts: 7,694
Convince a new LFS to use copper in some tanks?

An LFS in my area opened less than a year ago. He's a nice, ambitious young guy who I've kinda taken a liking too. I do remember he did have a bacterial outbreak at one point in the past. Anyway, his shop burned and now is about to open again after re-building. He's got only about 12 display tanks, with six of'm plummed together. He's got 4 tanks with coral and shrimp, crabs, and the like. His main business is tanks, installs, and regular maintenance.

He says he's trying to stay away from copper. I'm trying to convince him to run some in the six fish only tanks. Anyone wanna help me come up with something to convince him? I just think that he'd be a lot better off with receiving fish after transport, when they've likely been stressed and could cause an outbreak thru all his fish only tanks.

Does this make sense, or should I leave it alone? He's got the right idea about trying to provide high quality fish, but I think he could be setting himself up for huge losses?

Any input or thoughts that I might pass along to him? Don't all LFS'ers use copper in their fish tanks?
__________________

__________________
-Ray-

"Life may not be the party we hoped for but while we are here we might as well dance!"

austinsdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 01:18 PM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: maine
Posts: 1,975
In a LFS environment, I think copper should be used away from any tank that could contain inverts or corals. It is much too easy to use copper on a small number of tanks, and accidentallly transfer some to another tank (or tanks). With 6 tanks plumbed together, if any copper got in that system it would affect 6 tanks in one shot.

If anything, a copper dip/QT area setup away from the display tanks could work out well. One LFS by me does this, all new marine fish go in seperate QT for at least a week. The QT tanks are in an different room of of the LFS and nothing used for the QT tanks (water supply, buckets, nets, filters...) gets used on the display tanks. If they have to treat a fish, they can do it without worrying about the fish or inverts in the display areas.
__________________

__________________
*26 freshwater*
2x Sunburst Platys (2M, 2F) // 3x Neon Tetras (?) // 2x Cherry Barbs (1M, 1F) // 2x YoYo Loaches (?) // 1x Bushy Nose Pleco (M) // 1x Clown Pleco (?) //

*15H marine*
-30# Live Rock
-Mixed Snails (Nassarius // Cerith // Astrea // Black Turbo // Mexican Turbo)
-8x Blue Leg Hermit Crabs // 1x Banded Serpent Star // 1x Cleaner Shrimp
-1x Royal Gramma // 1x Percula Clownfish
-2x Mushroom Leather // Metallic Green Star Polyps // Pulsing Xenia // Striped Xenia // Blue Mushroom
-Remora + Maxi-Jet 1200 // 2x Maxi-Jet 600 // Maxi-Jet 400 // Visi-Therm Deluxe 50 // Current USA Orbit 2x 40w PC
grimlock3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 01:57 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,832
Send a message via Yahoo to quarryshark
IMO I would not use copper at all. The levels needed to really have any effect on parasites is way to high for long term housing. Fish can only take copper for short periods of time, long term treatment can do permanent damage or kill them.
A couple of LFS around here use a low level of copper in their system and they still get parasites. Also you can see after a fish has been there for a few months, they start to break down.
I believe a better (maybe not cheaper) way is to keep a couple of tank as hospital tanks separate from the rest of the system. If a fish comes in sick, place them in the hospital tank for treatment. Dips for new arrivals may also help.
Tough call, if your in the business.
__________________
quarryshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 02:22 PM   #4
AA Team Emeritus
 
austinsdad's Avatar


 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Accokeek, Maryland
Posts: 7,694
Thanks Q-Shark. That was one of my suggestions to him also - to use a tank or two as hospital tanks. I'd imagine he'll need two since all fish don't get along. I think I'll hammer on that option w/him.

And Grimlock makes a lot of sense too - in that copper could very easily be accidently transferred to other tanks.
__________________
-Ray-

"Life may not be the party we hoped for but while we are here we might as well dance!"

austinsdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 02:40 PM   #5
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,832
Send a message via Yahoo to quarryshark
Ya one of the places I mentioned has a beautiful Asfur Angel. I would love to buy her, but My Maculosus and her would fight like crazy.
She has been there for a few month and while I was in there the other day, I took a look at her. You could see she was looking sick, fins getting frayed, lateral line setting in. I just know its from the copper.
Breaks my heart. Such a friendly fish too.
__________________
quarryshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2004, 01:41 AM   #6
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 42
I've worked in two different LFS's and both used copper (cupramine) in their fish only systems. One used a very low dosage, the other went very high, .6 in one system and .8 in the other which does bother me abit but i'm not in the position to make that call in my store. They do have a quarantine system setup but it really reeks bad. It's a sure fire trip to the grave for any fish that enters that system. We do have a fairly high turnaround rate on fish so most don't stay more than a week or two in the systems before they go home. The acrylic systems they keep the reef stuff in really scare me. Never have i seen so much copepods in the filter floss in my life. Course, you'd think they'd at least cure the rock before they place any in the system
__________________
Berzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2004, 06:37 AM   #7
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Gig Harbor, WA.
Posts: 100
I can tell you what I would like to see all LFS do, but it would take the cooperation of their customers to work. Rather than using copper all the fish could be kept in hyposaline conditions. This will not cause them harm and it will help improve survival rates greatly. Fish that have just been transported and handled are suffering from osmotic disturbance due to stress. Hyposaline conditions help alleviate stress and the fish recover more quickly. The problem is that the customers would need to take the fish home and quarantine them. Then they could slowly bring the salinity up before moving them to their display tank. This would actually help reduce losses at the LFS and at home. I just think most people are too lazy to do it (or they don't really care about the fish).

You can read more about this in my library.
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...transport.html

Cheers,
Terry B

Cheers
Terry B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2004, 08:39 PM   #8
AA Team Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,224
Send a message via Yahoo to Hara
Quote:
I just think most people are too lazy to do it (or they don't really care about the fish).
Your post has alot of great information and thanks for the link. I do ask that you please try to be a little less offensive to those that don't follow your suggestions.
__________________
Hara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2004, 11:05 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: central florida
Posts: 331
I dont think anyone would find that comment offensive! I find it to be very true! That even goes for me i would not want to mess with some thing like that. I dont have the time or the room for a whole QT setup. I figure if i pay as much as i do for a fish he should be ready to drop in the tank! Hara you seem to be very knowledgable about this hobby and your post and replys are allways informative. But your allways the first one to jump on some one for what they post or reply with. You seem to think most everyones comments are some how offensive. And to me that more rude and offensive than anything i have ever read on this forum. Forums are for people to post there opinion. And your the only person on here that ever says something is offinsive. Every thing is not offinsive
__________________
KMyers18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2004, 11:32 PM   #10
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 42
Working in the business for a few years now, i can totally see both ends of what terry is saying. There are alot of customers that i get that just don't have room for a QT. There are also the customers that come in, plan on throwing money around without even trying to learn anything, and then get mad at ME when a fish dies after they get it home. I will say there are just as many smart hobbyists as there are idiots out there that think you just slap a fish in a tank and pop in water and go. I get questions like , "whats dechlorinator?" , "nobody told me i had to...(fill in menial task)". I enjoy the customers i have that take it as a hobby and have time and money to spend on it and do it right. Optimally, i would like to have all my customers have QT's , just for safe measure, but some responsibility does go to the store for providing healthy fish. I always make sure i look at every fish i sell and i check with the customer and make sure they are happy with what they see. I never sell a fish that looks unhealthy or that has not been in my store for at least 3 days after arrival. That at least gives them some time to show signs of Ich or other problems before going out to the customers. We do keep a Hyposaline quarantine in the back for fish that are new that show problems. It's just very hard to eliminate any chance of a fish to bring disease into the home of a customer without them having a QT or without the fish being in the store for a few weeks. I thank god for the use of sites like these where people can come and ask questions and get a variety of answers and can form some logical answer to their problems.
__________________

__________________
Berzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lfs, tan

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LFS- coral tanks blazeyreef Show Off/Photography 0 04-14-2007 08:10 PM
LFS display tanks? blazeyreef Show Off/Photography 0 04-14-2007 08:09 PM
Ick in the LFS tanks... Florida8 Saltwater Reef Aquaria 8 03-12-2006 11:03 AM
Convince me on the Best HOB Power Filter TygGer General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 9 07-27-2005 05:25 PM
LFS Tanks in general dustybrannum General Retailers 3 07-22-2004 11:54 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.