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Old 05-31-2005, 11:48 AM   #1
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coral beauty cupramine sensitive?

i just lost my coral beauty in QT. i had him for one week and he was doing great. eating fine swimming around not really hiding. then i noticed one white spot one his head. having to empty my main once already i didnt want to risk my new fish having ick so i started a cupramine treatment. after the first day of of the full dosage ( 5 mgl ) the fish went down hill quickly and died. i did a water change in the morning and at night because the ammonia started to rise ( i asssume the copper killed the bacteria ) so i guess here is my question, are dwarf angels more sensitive to cupramine and copper? did i make the wrong move by treating so quickly? is there any harm in QTing all new fish in a hyposalinty enviroment? i was thinking of doing that instead of copper in the future. after one week of normal QT automatically going to a hypo treatment. sorry for the long post, but really thought i was taking care of this fish correctly and i would like to do better in the future

thank as always
steve r
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:58 AM   #2
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Small angels are typically more sensitive to copper but Cupramine is well tolerated. I think your problem is too much too fast/possible overdose. Cupramine should be administered over 48 hours, not one day. ½ the dose the first day (1 ml/10.5 gal or 2 drops/gal) and the the other ½ dose 48 hrs later, test and tweek if necessary to acheive 0.5 mg/l. It allows them time to adjust and not go into toxic shock.

Some recommend prophylactically treating with hyposalinity but I tend not to agree. If the fish ends up with a completely different ailment, the time it takes to correct the salinity to where an alternative (incompatible) treament can be used, it may be too late.

Cheers
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Old 05-31-2005, 05:56 PM   #3
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i did not dose the whole amount the first day. i guess i did not put that in to words correctly. i dosed the first half of the treatment like the box says, and waited 48 hours for the second dose to bring it up to .5 mgl. he did fine for the first 48 hours and then took a turn for the worse.

steve r
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75g RR. 2x250 14k MH / 2x54 T5 act. 29g sump. ASM G1X skimmer. phosban reactor. 80lbs LS, 90lbs LR, 2x seio M620.
kole tang, bicolor angel, mandarin dragonette, ocellaris clown / BTA , cleaner shrimp, 2x peppermint shrimp, a variety of soft, SPS, and LPS corals, orange linckia star.
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:03 PM   #4
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If the angel was otherwise ailing and in poor health it is possible the Cupramine played a role. Unfortunately we have no idea what happens from the time the fish is collected to the time we get them home, collection more often than not being the root cause. I would not suggest you look at the Cupramine as a negative in this situation although I do think you would have been better off with hyposalinity. Not simpley because of this situation or the species of fish but the fact it is the least stressful treatment for crypt. It can actually reduce stress in new fish especially and may help with other unseen stressors.

When dealing with C. irritans, hyposalinity should really be the first approach.

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Steve
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:16 AM   #5
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i am going to only treat with hypo from now on. i am off to buy a good refractometer

thanks for the advice
steve r
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75g RR. 2x250 14k MH / 2x54 T5 act. 29g sump. ASM G1X skimmer. phosban reactor. 80lbs LS, 90lbs LR, 2x seio M620.
kole tang, bicolor angel, mandarin dragonette, ocellaris clown / BTA , cleaner shrimp, 2x peppermint shrimp, a variety of soft, SPS, and LPS corals, orange linckia star.
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Old 06-01-2005, 02:58 AM   #6
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Cupramine

I bought a bottle of cupramine, but the dosing seems a bit confusing because a little bit goes very far in a qt tank or smaller tanks, add on top of that you have to split it for freshwater when I have used it. I think if your going to use it you have to get a multi-test copper tester that tests for cupramine. You also have to be extremely careful of the doser they give you, which has measurements of .5 and 1 on the doser, but if you look carefully the 1 has more than twice as much as the .5 on the doser. Maybe i'm confused but the doser's tube looks like its the same diameter. I think if you use their doser it could possibly lead to overmedicating the fish.
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Old 06-01-2005, 11:09 AM   #7
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i know i dosed correctly because i have the correct test kit. if anything i was a little low since this was only 48 hours in it didnt come out exactly to .5 mgl. i also have treated a clown fish before.

steve
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kole tang, bicolor angel, mandarin dragonette, ocellaris clown / BTA , cleaner shrimp, 2x peppermint shrimp, a variety of soft, SPS, and LPS corals, orange linckia star.
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