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Old 08-22-2003, 02:07 PM   #11
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My comment was more directed towards the comments of ShannonBad. Not to sling mud or anything, I just felt that a lot of the things said were based on opinion and stated more as fact. Some even false. Like the fact that you can only start with one rock.

10. It takes TIME for a tank to "cycle" (meaning that there is enough bacteria growth to sustain the biological load). Cycling can take up to 6 months or sometimes longer. You have to be patient. You can't go out and buy a bunch of live rock, coral and fish - at the beginning one fish (or a few very small fish) and one rock. You HAVE to be patient.

It is not true, you can buy as much rock as you want to start.

Also, even the matter of a skimmer is up to debate. I know it is recommended, but it is not essential. There are many successful tanks with no skimmer. I just think when something is an opinion, it should be stated as one.

BTW, fishfreek, I love the site. I have gained a lot of invaluable info off this site. I love ethe fact that we can all share our thoughts. And all info is welcome. I was more upset at that one post, I just thought there was a better way of sharing knowledge. But hey, what do I know.

Anyway, no hard feelings.
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Old 08-22-2003, 02:47 PM   #12
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I'm not trying to scare anyone off, but it is important to be realistic.

Before you start spending, you want to have an idea of what you want your tank to end up being (reef tank or fish tank....big or small bio load).

If you want a very basic small bio load fish tank that has a layer of sand, fake plants, a few fish and a rock, then you are looking at a cheaper set up - especially if you buy a used tank.

For my personality, it was necessary to get a "classy" tank (full wood top and bottom) to house my big bio load reef community.



THE DECEPTION: The problem with owning a salt water tank is...although in the BEGINNING you might feel that you want a small bioload fish tank.....over time...as you learn more and more....the REEF ADDICTION sets in!!!! This is a reality for most sw aquarium owners and this should be accounted for when determining tank cost.

You may originally have intended to have a small bioload fish tank when you get your first live rock. Then all of a sudden you learn about algae and coraline algae. Then all of a sudden you find things living in and on your rock - things you never even thought existed!

Then you you decide it would finally be cool to get that anenome with the clownfish (the gateway "drug" to coral).... Now you have to get the proper lighting. Now buying coral is inevitable and that low end pump is no longer going to cut it!

So, although you might see people in here claiming that a cheap tank can be done - beware! I would hate to see you go "cheap" and buy all of the small stuff for a low bioload tank only to have to throw all of that stuff away because now you want a reef tank!
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Old 08-22-2003, 02:51 PM   #13
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You do have me there. The "bug" will bite. Corals are just so pretty aren't they. And you really should look that far ahead. I think the point all of us ware trying to make is planning and patience are the two most important things. You can spend what u want, look like what u want to look like. But in the end, without that planning for the future and patience, in that case u can very possibly have a very expensive failure on your hands.
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Old 08-22-2003, 02:59 PM   #14
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Macatua,

Now you ARE mudslinging and I ask what your problem is. I clearly stated that my advice could be incorrect as it was based upon my personal experience! Did you only read HALF of what I wrote!

As far as a skimmer goes, I do know that many experts mandate that you have one. My experience is that you have to have one to have a healthy reef.

As far as buying one rock in the beginning - this is again based upon my personal experience. IT doesn't make sense to buy a tank full of rocks if you eventually want to put live rock into the tank. One thing about aquariums (if you are starting out from scratch) is that an aquarium is a slow building process.

It is difficult to dip sick fish from a cycling or unstable tank if you have a tank full of rocks. It is difficult to locate dead fish if you have a tank full of rocks. Hopefully, a beginner won't accidentally kill any of his/her fish - but from my experience most people do.


And yes, cycling can be different from stabilization, but most literature I have read on the subject keep them as one in the same and refer to the entire process as cycling.


Maybe your experience is different - but I would appreciate it if you would not attack my posts and instead share YOUR OWN experiences instead.

Thank you!
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:18 PM   #15
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This entire board is based on personal experience as well as sharing information gleaned from others as well as other sites.

Wether or not someone was responding to a particular post does not necessarily mean they were attacking that individual poster.

This is a friendly forum and nothing is gained from personal attacks or finger pointing.

Everyone's experience is different.

I can certainly disagree with a few things ShannonBad did in setting up her tank, but it's what she did and what she felt she learned.

I also don't think Macatua was slinging any mud.

We need to remember we're all here for the same purpose and to respect each others opinions, even if we feel they are wrong. When we feel they are wrong, we certainly welcome you to express that you disagree and give your reasons wether as personal experience or as identifiable evidence (through books or web site). But if the conversation regresses into personal attacks or "flames" the thread will be locked.
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:21 PM   #16
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IE just crashed and I lost my post. ARGH.

The jist of it was saying that the lighting costs that Tim gave where implying you using something brighter and more intense than standard florecent. Standard florecent bulbs are good for viewing fish and thats about it.
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:30 PM   #17
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Again, as fishfreek stated, I was not mudslinging. I stated that I thought some of your messages were, IMO, false. I also think you gave some good advice, and if you read my last post I even gave you credit and agreed with the fact that the "bug" will bite. I am not out to make enemys. I think we have all had experiences good and bad. I was trying to let a aspiring hobbyist know that it was not NECESSARY to break the bank to have a wonderful aquarium. Again, no hard feelings.
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:50 PM   #18
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Hm, Macatua where did I say what you say i said? Just seaking a clarification in that I never said what you assigned to me. Billyz did say that so im just clarifying it.

Now what is good advice by one is bad advice by another. lets all understand that how I setup a tank might not be how you setup a tank and how you do it might not be how someone else does it. There are very few "absolutes" in this hobby.

Now lets all get back to the item at hand.
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:57 PM   #19
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as suggested, back to the topic:

I originaly got into the hobby by winning a bid in a local auction for a "mini-reef" which was a 20 gallon tank and a bunch of other "Stuff" to get it started. I bid just over $100 if I remember right.

I went to the store and ended up, "upgrading" the kit I won for enough stuff to start a 55 gallon (including the tank) I ended up spending another $100 or so.

Then I bought the LR... lol $5 a pound for cured LR at a LFS. and LS for $2 a pound to top of my CC... (yea yea i know)

that was over a year ago... I think I've spent an additional $400 so I'm still well under $1000.

If you're frugal and patient you can get a respectable reef setup.

One word of advice if your on a budget... plan ahead and start "collecting" parts before you start setting it up. yes, this means you'll have to wait longer.. but if you buy the tank now.. stand later.. hood after that, pick up the powerheads and skimmer somewhere down the line... you can get all the equipment you need in small bursts, and when you've finaly got it all.. THEN set up your tank.

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Old 08-22-2003, 04:07 PM   #20
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Though I don't actually do SW, I agree with buying things in bursts. This is how I planned my upcomming aquarium and I have been thankful for it. Since I started collecting 2 months ago I have already upgraded my pump and heater. I am glad that I was able to return these products for full refunds as opposed to having to buy something new to replace something old that you still have.
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