Dips vs QT?

[MarkW19]

I know that QT is better, but how MUCH better than a freshwater dip, performed properly?

A fish in a small tank with nothing else in it, not to mention having to acclimate at least twice to 2 different tanks, can't do it much good.

I'm just trying to figure out what to do with my next fish, having lost my last 2 in QT. I seem to be fighting a losing battle with it.

If I do a dip properly, how likely is it that it will kill any parasites/diseases etc. that could carry over to my main tank?

 

[phases99]

A FW dip will reduce the chance of introducing parasites into your main tank but it will do nothing for any disease the fish may be carrying. I have had success with both but would definately QT if you already have fish in the tank. The toughest part of QT is keeping a small volume of water stable and NH3 / NO2 free. I would investigate the reasons why you are having no luck with QT before considering to add more fish.

 

[Shultz]

OK, this is just MHO, no doubts I will be shot down.......

I have a 30gal tank, I will have 5 fish in total with lots of inverts, so far I have had 3 fish with no problems (removed a strawberry fish due to aggression), partly cos I only buy from 2 LFS's that I know & trust.

I also run a UV to "help" keep ick away, yes I also know the pros & cons of its kill everything useage.

I don't use a QT either have I dipped any of the fish, I look at ths way.. The fish are highly stressed when caught, they then change hands more than likely a couple of times before being shipped here, they then change hands to TMC (here in UK) they then geting shipped to your LFS & then you bring it home, if that ain't enough you then either dip or stick it in a tank for 6 weeks before catching it again & putting it in your main tank! each time damage must be done to the fishes protective coating?

Maybe I've been lucky, maybe not? as I said it is just my take on it & so far so good, of course in the interests of fairness if I have problems in the future I would of course say so...

I must finally add whether you QT, dip or straight in the tank (after acclimatising) none of these methods can truely be said to be right or wrong.

(FX: now ducks for cover)

Cheers Shelton.

 

[Atari]

Heh.. not gonna shoot you down Shelton. But I will bring to light what Mark has just gone through to perhaps offer you food for thought. He just had a fish die in QT which may or may not have been the result of disease. Let's say you're right and it was just a result of stress/poor conditions in a small tank, so perhaps adding straight to the main would have left him with all healthy fish. Great. Now let's look at it from the other point of view. What if it didn't die because of stress/conditions, but because it had something like marine velvet (some of the symptoms were the same so who knows). Now if this fish had been added straight to the main tank then ALL of them would be dead right now. So it comes down to risking your entire livestock over one fish.

Now it's also worth bearing in mind that countless people QT fish without any problems. If you do it right, there's no reason for the fish to be in any danger. Remember where it's coming from.. why would it be any worse off than it was in the LFS?

It's probably one of those things that you won't take seriously until you've had a disaster happen. Just have a look around the forum and you'll see plenty of reasons to learn from other peoples mistakes instead of waiting till you make your own.

 

[MarkW19]

QT it is then

Atari: where r u in the UK?

 

[quarryshark]

Agree with Atari (maybe someday I won't )
I am a firm believer in qt. After a velvet battle and a ich battle, I will no longer introduce a snail without qt. Actually I have become quite good at the qt procedure.
IMO the key is water changes. I have had a huge bioload in a qt tank on two occasions (including now). I have in a 40 gallon, all my fish stock below except the lawnmower Blenny and the Coral Beauty (they are in a 10 together).
By adding a 40 gallon garbage can to my 40 gallon qt and water changes (every day and twice a day in the beginning) I was able to keep them healthy until the cycle was established. IMO you need to commit yourself to do whatever water changes are needed until the tank gets on auto pilot. In the beginning I was doing 16 gallons a day, this kept them healthy until the biofilter set up. Now I just do 6 gallons a day. I have no ammonia whatsoever.
What I'm gettiing at is I think that people rely too much on the "seeded sponge" to do the work for them, While it is necessary, the daily water changes are even more so. Fight that ammonia with water changes, you will beat it.

 

[Shultz]

I agree with all sides of the arguement, as I said it could be luck why I haven't had any problems, maybe not?

It could also be said the fish I'm keeping/going to keep are the ones that tend to be more hardy anyways?

I know someone that has a dozen fish in a tank with no problems, but the last 3 fish he's bought have all died, when I asked what he'd done differently I was told he saved money on them all by going to a bit of a dodgy LFS rather than his regular one....

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK you only have to spend a couple of minutes in some LFS to see why people bring home diseased/dying fish!

Cheers Shelton.

 

[MarkW19]

If I properly cycle my QT with Biomature, how long do you think it'll take to cycle? And, after it's cycled will it mean I won't need to do a waterchange every day? Every 3 days would be ok, but every day is a bit tricky with my working pattern etc.

 

[Atari]

The way I see it, if you have a good filter and do a proper cycle, there's no difference between a QT tank and a regular tank. The only time anything should be different is:

A) When you need to QT a large load from the main tank.

B) When you're treating, and can't rely on the biofilter.

If you're setting up a QT for a new purchase, think of it as starting a new tank rather than a QT.. that's really all it is. Then if you end up needing to treat the fish, you can change your husbandry accordingly.

 

[MarkW19]

I've got an internal Fluval 2 Plus filter...

 

[steve-s]

Also try not to rely on artificial biostarters. Most if not all are useless and do not do what they claim. As previously stated, water changes are the best means of controlling toxin water conditions.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkW19]

Okie, well I don't want a raw shrimp in my bedroom!

What's the best way for me to start the QT cycle?

 

[steve-s]

If you have a seeded sponge or other biomaterial to transfer, adding small bits of food (flake/pellet) should do well enough. The idea of seeding is to transfer bacteria so after that all you need do is feed it so the bacteria gain in number. Using the shrimp method cultivates bacteria from square one which is unneccessary when seeding.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Edmonton Eskimo]

If you are getting your livestock from an lfs that has excellent quaranting procedure do you really need to qt them again when you bring them home?

 

[phases99]

I did not have much luck with adding small bits of food to keep the culture going. There was a 2 week period that my QT was empty and I added some flakes about 3 times which I guess wasn't enough. I had a .5ppm ammonia spike followed by a .5 ppm nitrite spike and my new Royal Gramma didn't make it (Maybe unrelated but I felt terrible anyway). Make sure you have plenty of aged SW ready to go just in case. I did the emergency water changes which may have made things worse.

 

[phases99]

If you are getting your livestock from an lfs that has excellent quaranting procedure do you really need to qt them again when you bring them home?

If you have a LFS that will QT a fish for you by itself I would say you probably don't need it. But as soon as that fish comes in contact with another fish all bets are off. It would be worth paying a premium price if you could actually see their holding tanks and trust that they are not cutting corners.

 

[blorkiemom]

MarkW19, I don't know what your situation is but I just started my QT before my display tank was running (so the fish would be ready about the same time the main tank was) and I started the cycle (in a 20 gal) with a 5 pound chunk of LR. The ammonia never got higher than .25--same with nitrites--but it did take a month to cycle. I have the QT in my bedroom, too, and I couldn't deal with sleeping by a rotting shrimp, either! I fed the rock a few flakes every 3-4 days.

 

[Edmonton Eskimo]

Phases 99 There is a fish store that I have found that actually lets you see there qt facility. It is excellent.

 

[phases99]

Phases 99 There is a fish store that I have found that actually lets you see there qt facility. It is excellent.

It almost sounds too good to be true. The fish is still going to be stressed from bagging and acclimating into a new environment. I'm curious to see what some of the longtime AA'ers have to say about this.

 

[MarkW19]

I just emailed the place Atari recommended to me, Oasis Aquariums, and they said:-

"all our livestock is from TMC and is quarantined prior to us collecting it (all hand picked by ourselves) we then quarantine it again form 3-7 days depending on the type of fish some settle far faster than others".

What do you guys think to this?