Ecolibrium: NO-ICH Marine

[stresco]

Oops...Spoke too soon. This morning, i as looking into the tank, ant it looks like the tang has little white specks on his body again

I just added 25lbs of Southdown to the tank, mayby it is just the sand that i stirred up sticking to him, I HOPE!

I will keep a close eye on them.

 

[stresco]

I still see some white specks on the tang today, just not nearly as much as was on him yesterday. Maybe it was because i stirred up the sand, but i dont see any spots on the tang.

 

[stresco]

I dosed the tank last night after i did a 10 gal water change. That was the first water change that i have done since i started dosing the tank wtih the No-Ich. I have decided to continue dosing the tank until the bottle is finished. I do not see any spots on either fish today, which is good. Is it possible that the N0-Ich is actually working, or is it a combination of the garlic in the food and the fishes own immunity? I am not too sure that i believe the theory of an animal developing an immunity to a parasite. Just dosnt seem to follow any logic. Perhaps the garlic is emmited from the fish's skin, like in humans, and the parasites find it distastful.

I added a 170Gph power head into the rigth side of the tank to help with the water flow, becase I was having trouble getting my Rio 1700 restarted during the water change and i dont have another pump. I had to bang the sh*t out of the pump to get it started. I bought a Mag7 this morining. I will switch out the Rio tonight and keep it as a spare.

 

[Guest]

I am not too sure that i believe the theory of an animal developing an immunity to a parasite. Just dosnt seem to follow any logic.

Why would that not be logical? The fish may not become completely immune, but they do have immune systems that aid in warding off disease. I haven't ever dosed my tank and I have had fish and still have them, battle and kick ich with no aid. Today they have been parasite free for months on end. So, To say it doesn't follow logic, I have to wonder which logic? I am glad to hear your fish are doing fine though,,,

PS, has Kick-ICH affected the bacteria in the tank? pod population, worms, etc?

 

[stresco]

I am not too sure that i believe the theory of an animal developing an immunity to a parasite. Just dosnt seem to follow any logic.

Why would that not be logical? The fish may not become completely immune, but they do have immune systems that aid in warding off disease. I haven't ever dosed my tank and I have had fish and still have them, battle and kick ich with no aid. Today they have been parasite free for months on end. So, To say it doesn't follow logic, I have to wonder which logic? I am glad to hear your fish are doing fine though,,,

PS, has Kick-ICH affected the bacteria in the tank? pod population, worms, etc?

they do have immune systems that aid in warding off disease

I agree that animals have the ability to build up an immunity to diseases, but Ich is more of an invading creature IMO. Maybe i'm wrong, but have you ever heard of a dog building an immunity to fleas, or ticks?

has Kick-ICH affected the bacteria in the tank? pod population, worms, etc?

Is Kick-Ich and No-Ich the same product? I havnt noticed any difference in the pod population in the tank as of yet. But i have noticed that it has deminished since i added the horseshoecrab, and i am going to give him to the LFS before i add more LS to my tank.

 

[steve-s]

I am not too sure that i believe the theory of an animal developing an immunity to a parasite. Just dosnt seem to follow any logic.

Why would that not be logical? The fish may not become completely immune, but they do have immune systems that aid in warding off disease. I haven't ever dosed my tank and I have had fish and still have them, battle and kick ich with no aid. Today they have been parasite free for months on end. So, To say it doesn't follow logic, I have to wonder which logic?

The fish do not become immune to C irritans but rather a healthier stronger fish has the ability to effectively resist the theront trying to attach to a fish host. Without that host, the theront cannot survive much past 12 hours. In many cases that is all that is required.

A healthy fish will have a strong slime coat which helps resist parasitic problems. A less healthy animal will have a reduced (thinner layer), which allows the theront to become attached and establish a colony. Wether that be through less than par water conditions, improper diet or other stressors.

To say the fish can build up an immunity to the parasite itself is incorrect. It is a parasite, not a disease.

Establishing a QT routine is the most recommended way of preventing the problem in the first place. A tank can be "ick free" forever providing the new inhabitants are properly introduced.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Guest]

Sorry, my bad, I meant the NO-ICH

I guess I really said what I meant wrong, I meant the same thing that Steve explained. I know that ICH is a parasite and not a disease. I should have said parasite instead of disease. But in the same manner, I guess you could call a healthy fish somewhat immune, as they do not contract ICH readily...

 

[stresco]

OK...See that makes more sence to me. I healthy fish is less likely to be seseptabel to parasite infestations because of a healthy buildup of slimecoat on its skin. Whereas a stressed animal is more likely to host these creatures because of a deminished slimecoat, making it easier for the parasite to leech onto the skin of the fish.

 

[stresco]

Its been a week, since the last dose. I dont see any ick on any of the fish. I have made several changes in the Aquascaping and have added 12 new corals into the tank, so i have had my hands in the water quite often over the last few days. That type of activity usualy stresses the fish a great deal. But as i said, i have not seen any signs of ick.

I turned the skimmer back on this evening, because i have started feeding live phytoplankton to the corals, because i want it to remove the phyto when it dies.

 

[steve-s]

That type of activity usualy stresses the fish a great deal. But as i said, i have not seen any signs of ick.

Stress does not cause ich. Stress reduces the effectiveness of the fishs' natural immune system.

Once the parasite has been eliminated it cannot come back unless introduced. The only way to prevent re-introduction is to QT everything when purchasing anything that came from a tank containing fish.

C irritans cannot survive without a fish host but it can be transmitted via the tomont (cyst) where the parasite attaches to a solid structure like substrate, coral rock base, live rock and so on. Plus obviously any new fish.

The chances of infection due to the tomont are rare but there is still the chance.

Cheers
Steve

 

[stresco]

That type of activity usualy stresses the fish a great deal. But as i said, i have not seen any signs of ick.

Stress does not cause ich. Stress reduces the effectiveness of the fishs' natural immune system.

Once the parasite has been eliminated it cannot come back unless introduced. The only way to prevent re-introduction is to QT everything when purchasing anything that came from a tank containing fish.

C irritans cannot survive without a fish host but it can be transmitted via the tomont (cyst) where the parasite attaches to a solid structure like substrate, coral rock base, live rock and so on. Plus obviously any new fish.

The chances of infection due to the tomont are rare but there is still the chance.

Cheers
Steve

Steve,

I understand all this, but you have to understand why i started this thread.

This thread is a log that I have been keeping for other reefers to see my success or failure in using this controversial product. I am NOT staying that stress causes ich, just that stress IS a catalyst for the infestation. If you look back in some of the other posts, you will see that the theory of treating ich has been reviewed and duly noted.

Overview:
I have dosed my tank with a product (No-Ich) to remove the parasite. It is said to be non-effective by many people. I have not QT the fish, dosed the tank with copper, nor have i used hyposalinity, the "Only proven methods" for fighting ich. What I have done is dose my main tank with No-Ich according to the directions stated on the bottle, and soak the fish food in garlic guard.

The reason the last post was entered was to show that I have finished treating the tank with No-Ich 1 week ago, and I have caused a great deal of stress in the last few days to my fish. Luckily, I have not seen a re-infestation of ich.

I leave it open to debate:

-Did the No-Ich work?
Possibly. I had a fish that looked like he was near death (TuskFish) when I started dosing my tank. He is healthy now, and eating veraciously.

-Did feeding garlic to the fish help?
I'd say that it didn't hurt. I didn’t see any change in the eating habits of the tang or the tusk when I started using the garlic. My eel will not touch any food that has been soaked in garlic however.

-Did the fish develop an "immunity" to ich? I don't like to use the word immunity when discussing a parasitic infestation. Did the fish develop a slime coat that repelled the ich more efficiently (i think is a better question), naturally?
I don't know.

-Did No-Ich hurt any of the other tank inhabitants?
No. Everything, all of my inverts, are still alive and healthy.

I do not plan on adding any more fish to this tank, so I will keep a close eye on its inhabitants. If I see another out break of ich, I will know for sure that the No-Ich product is a failure. However, if I do not see anything in the next 2 - 3 weeks, I will be able to say that it is possible that No-Ich actually did what it claims to do.

 

[bingtownpiker]

Tell me more about No-Ich Marine

I have a similar problem with my new reef tank. Wondering how the no-ich marine is working? Is the ich gone...are there any questionable results with your inverts? PLEASE give me an update.
Thanks,
Scott

 

[stresco]

Re: Tell me more about No-Ich Marine

I have a similar problem with my new reef tank. Wondering how the no-ich marine is working? Is the ich gone...are there any questionable results with your inverts? PLEASE give me an update.
Thanks,
Scott

Scott,
I can’t tell you for sure that the No-Ich is working or not. What I can tell you is that I do not believe that it has harmed anything in the tank. Read, the rest of the posts from the beginning, I have tried to be as thorough as possible.

 

[steve-s]

Stresco, I have read the thread and think it's great contribution. I did not intend to detract from your efforts I was just hoping to clarify that last post concerning stress. The way it was worded made it sound as if stress can cause ich. Since that was not the intension, then my bad

-Did the No-Ich work?
Possibly. I had a fish that looked like he was near death (TuskFish) when I started dosing my tank. He is healthy now, and eating veraciously.

I have used the Ecolibrium product myself with the same results.

-Did feeding garlic to the fish help?
I'd say that it didn't hurt. I didn’t see any change in the eating habits of the tang or the tusk when I started using the garlic. My eel will not touch any food that has been soaked in garlic however.

I would suggest that garlic did indeed aid in the success. The active ingredient allicin is a great repellant to C irritans. As well it will aid in promoting the fish's appetite. The eel is highly resitant to these kinds of problems and will in most cases not be a problem. Mine never touched garlic or vitamin soaked foods either.

-Did the fish develop an "immunity" to ich? I don't like to use the word immunity when discussing a parasitic infestation. Did the fish develop a slime coat that repelled the ich more efficiently (i think is a better question), naturally?
I don't know.

At the very least it would be a contributor.

-Did No-Ich hurt any of the other tank inhabitants?
No. Everything, all of my inverts, are still alive and healthy.

Agreed, when I used it my tank had 3 cukes as well as many other sensative animals/corals with no losses.

Best of luck with your future plans....

Cheers
Steve

 

[stresco]

Best of luck with your future plans....

Thanks Steve, and i wish you the same.

 

[luntiz]

Sorry to bring an old subject back up, but did this product "appear" to work for you? Basically did your fishes become infested again?

 

[stresco]

So far so good. I guess i was one of the lucky ones. I have not had an infestation of ich since.

KNOCK ON WOOD!