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Old 02-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #1
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Emperor Angel turning white, not eating (PICS)

Hi everyone

I have an Emperor Angel going through his transitional period. I've had him for just under a year. I've attached a picture of what he looks like. He hasn't been eating for two days. He swims around and seems very mildly interested in food but doesn't try to taste anything. He is usually a ravenous eater.

Recent events: I had a run of white spot which I treated with Cupramine about four months ago. I did this in my display tank, which resulted in a collapse of my bio filter. I struggled to get my nitrates down but it eventualy budged with the help of an overpowered skimmer, nitraguard titanium cubes and lots of water changes. The white spot returned and I decided to not treat with anything . Everyone seemed to recover fine, but now my Emperor Angel is not eating. I would have assumed that it was just another bout of white spot but my regal tang who is usually riddled with it is absolutely clear and not scratching one bit.
The Emperor isn't scratching, but visits the cleaner wrasse and shrimp often. he also has cloudy eyes and it seems as if there are some stringy bits around his eye. His fins look a bit frayed and he is covered in white patches (see photo). I gave him a FW dip yesterday in a black bucket but couldn't see any flukes. It also didn't seem to change his behaviour at all.

I also recently added a bi-colour angel and a naso tang (both quarantined for six weeks) and they died within three days after being added. Soon after that one of my blue cheeks died and this is when the Angel stopped eating.

His usually diet consists of: Ocean nutrition formula 1 and 2. (all pellet sizes), marine mix, mysid shrimp and ocean nutrition algae strips dipped in vitamins from Brightwell aquatics. (Vit C, Vit M, Angelixir). He also loves to eat the algae that I scrape off the back of my tank.

He is in a 125g FOWLR along with 1x 5yr old Regal Tang, Adolescent Queen Angel (not sure of age), 3 x yellow tangs (Medium size), 1 x Auriga butterfly, 1 x blue cheek goby, 1 x cleaner wrasse, 3 x small ocelaris clowns, and a neon goby. Also have 2 x cleaner shrimp and a pumpkin urchin.

Water parameters:

Ph: 8,2 , Alk: 10.0, Sal: 1,020, Nitrate: 10, Nitrite: 0, Ammonia: 0, Temp: 24 - 28 degrees (on very hot days)

System: 125g with sump, Super Reef XP-5000 Ext cone skimmer, phosphate reactor. (I usually run ozone through an ozone reactor but the ozoniser has malfunctioned and I'm waiting for it to be replaced). I've just ordered a chiller as I've been getting some temepature spikes of up to 28 degrees celcius.

Please note that I am planning on putting everyone in a much bigger aquarium within the next five months, so don't worry about there being too little space.

Thanks so much to anyone who can help!!!

PS: Please forgive spelling and gramar - I wrote in a bit of a rush.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:51 PM   #2
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That sounds like it could be marine velvet. It could also be partially the aftermath of the Ich.

The cleaner shrimp and wrasse won't help either of those.

It also seems like a lot of fish for a 120, IMO. Four tangs, two large angels, a butterfly and a bunch of other smaller fish. Do you get any aggression and do your parameters stay in check? I know you are going larger soon, but that mix just seems like there would be issues. Two angels is usually a bad idea...three of the same tang, usually not good...just seems like there would be constant stress.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:13 PM   #3
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Hi

Thanks for that. Yes I agree, and that's why I'm going bigger. The Angels never bother each other at all, they're both from a different genus. There is some aggression between the two yellow tangs, which is why I want to remove at least two of them actually. I put them in together when they were still very young, thinking that they may get along. They're fine most of the time, just the two smaller ones that fight a bit.

Nobody is ever aggressive toward the Emperor, and besides a few grunts now and then when he gets his Nori, he doesn't really bother anybody either. When I put the Queen in I thought that I would get some trouble, but she has literally never been aggressive to any other fish. Its really strange.

I have pretty stable water parameters. I do a water change every four or five days and I do tests as often. This is my tank's first real summer which is why I'm getting a chiller after seeing the temperature spikes.

I also suspected velvet, but because nobody else is affected (except of course the four dead fish) I thought that it might be something else. I also expected a higher mortality rate from velvet and I haven't seem him scratching.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:22 PM   #4
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I'm honestly not sure if it is velvet or not, but it looks like something like that.

It's great the the angels get along. I've always heard that you should not have more than one large and one dwarf angel, regardless of tank size ( unless you are talking really big). Both are great fish though. Hope yours pulls through.

I've got a multicolor angel that I just got that has cloudy eyes and this morning, one eye looks pretty bad. Not eating now, so well see...
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:31 PM   #5
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I'm currently dosing with Metranidozle. Its worked well in the past for other ailments, so I"m hoping that it might help. Day two though and no improvement. I'll let you know about it tomorrow. Thanks!

I don't have too much experience - but besides the flukes and other irritants, could your PH be too low? I'm sure you've checked it but I've been told that its a common cause of a cloudy eye.

I think I got lucky with the queen Angel. I adopted her from another owner who raised her with an Emperor Angel. Or she's just a really friendly fish.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:01 PM   #6
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I've never personally owned one, but had an ex that had one on a 300. One of my favorites of all time.

My ph is 8.2. This is a brand new fish, only a few days in my tank. Of course we were using our QT for a science fair project, so I put it directly into my DT. It looks like the eyelids are torn right now. Much worse than this morning, so not holding my breath on it making it through this ordeal. Even more upset about nuking my DT.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTodd View Post
I'm honestly not sure if it is velvet or not, but it looks like something like that.

It's great the the angels get along. I've always heard that you should not have more than one large and one dwarf angel, regardless of tank size ( unless you are talking really big). Both are great fish though. Hope yours pulls through.

I've got a multicolor angel that I just got that has cloudy eyes and this morning, one eye looks pretty bad. Not eating now, so well see...
My starry blenny a while back started having cloudy eyes, not eating as much, kinda lethargic. I did a FW dip to see if anything came off, but nothing did. So I treated the DT with 2 doses of Prazipro. Stuff worked amazingly! Just 2 doses a few days apart (I think it was 4 days, but can't recall with certainty) and the blenny was back to his normal self, strutting around the tank like he was John travolta. Haha. The cloudy eyes were gone, and he was back to eating. The Prazipro bottle says reef safe, but not to use with dusters. I had dusters, and it didn't bother them at all. It doesn't cost much, fish stores have it and you just turn off the skimmer for about a week during the treatment. Easy, cheap and effective!! Can't beat that!!
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fahemah View Post
I'm currently dosing with Metranidozle. Its worked well in the past for other ailments, so I"m hoping that it might help. Day two though and no improvement. I'll let you know about it tomorrow. Thanks!

I don't have too much experience - but besides the flukes and other irritants, could your PH be too low? I'm sure you've checked it but I've been told that its a common cause of a cloudy eye.

I think I got lucky with the queen Angel. I adopted her from another owner who raised her with an Emperor Angel. Or she's just a really friendly fish.
I know squat about velvet, but I read a little and it said copper is the only treatment that works. Also said that once fish get yellow patches on their skin, they're usually too far gone to save. I hope that's not true. Good luck with it and let us know of your progress with it!
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:39 PM   #9
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I read the same. Saw something about peroxide being a new hopeful treatment, but still not a proven treatment yet.

My multicolor angel did not make it. Two days from noticing it was not well to death. Was doing great before that though. Looking back, I think my bicolor Foxface probably brought it into my tank. Was fine in QT, but got something on skin and had cloudy eyes a week or so later (of course). It died in two days too.

Hopefully the OP has better luck...
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:45 PM   #10
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I read the same. Saw something about peroxide being a new hopeful treatment, but still not a proven treatment yet.

My multicolor angel did not make it. Two days from noticing it was not well to death. Was doing great before that though. Looking back, I think my bicolor Foxface probably brought it into my tank. Was fine in QT, but got something on skin and had cloudy eyes a week or so later (of course). It died in two days too.

Hopefully the OP has better luck...
Sorry about your angel.
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