Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater & Reef - Sick Fish or Coral
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 02-20-2012, 03:56 AM   #1
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
don_chuwish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 256
Facing facts - ich confirmed, going fallow

Wow, lots of ich threads going right now! Sorry to add yet another.
We did QT all our new fish, but maybe not long enough, or maybe some LFS or web order water got in when adding frags, inverts, chaeto or ... who knows. We'll have to tighten our introduction protocols even more.

We've been watching our 3 fish in the DT closely for a week now. Used to be four, but as mentioned in another thread our RG showed a couple of spots last Sunday. Removed to hospital just in case, looking fine now. But our Green Clown Goby has 2-3 clear spots today so we're facing facts.

I hope we've done our research well enough. Some good reading linked by many others:

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

and two more I really like:

Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Our current stock:

Hospital Tank (15G):
Royal Gramma - No spots since 6 days ago, has been in HT 7 days with Coppersafe dosed. Never behaved sick, good appetite.
Just drained HT & refilled with hypo (1.010) instead of Cu. RG back in & sleeping now, just checked.

QT (15G):
QT tank is currently suspect, but so far no spots on anyone.
Six Line Wrasse
Pair of True Percs
All in for 8-9 days now, but staying quite a bit longer!

DT (36G):
Banggai Cardinal. Can't see any spots but how could you?
Green Clown Goby - healthy & active, but 2-3 spots on body/dorsal
High Fin Red Banded Goby - possible 1 spot on pectoral fin, healthy
- paired with a Candy Stripe Pistol Shrimp
Peppermint Shrimp
Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
Pom Pom Crab
Emerald Crab
Mystery pistol shrimp - in a LR hole, snaps once in a while but we never see it!
3 x Nassarius snails
Many Astraea coneheads
Many various hermits
2 Feather dusters
Corals:
Frogspawn, Candy Cane, Zenia, Sun Coral, Toadstool, 2 medium plating monti, 1 tiny plating monti, Green Star Polyp, Cloves, Zoas, mushrooms, button polyps, plus a Blue Ridge on a large LR.
About half & half LR to new base rock from MarcoRocks, all nicely aquascaped.

HOB Refugium: a little LR, chaeto & some bugs.

So this is getting long but I think it's best to lay it out up front!

We've prepped temporary tubs for LR, coral & non-fish critters and plan to do a full tear down tomorrow. Sounds dramatic but looking back at all the lessons we've learned since starting up this tank - I'd just like to start over. It's still early in the grand scheme of things.

3 fish from the DT go to the hypo salinity HT.
Once everything else but the sand is out of the DT, I'm going to stir up & thoroughly rinse the sand. Nothing to do with ich, but it's not even 2 months old & I didn't do that at start up so this is my chance. Rocks will all get a good swishing rinse in a bucket before going in their temporary tubs.

Refill DT with RO/DI. Let water clear & warm up (filter going). Redo aquascape. Return corals (getting a CoralRx dip first) & all non-fish critters. Enjoy a fishless reef for 8 weeks.

Sadly, this means returning the Candy Stripe Pistol Shrimp to the DT withOUT his Hi Fin goby buddy. My wife is very worried about their separation. Is there any reason to fear they won't re-pair after 4 weeks?

This is going to be a huge effort & painfully long wait with 3 tanks running, but I'd rather hit it hard & get it sorted out right than fight it over & over again.

Shopping list tomorrow: extra heater, reef salt, 25G of RO/DI water from the Water Store ($1/5G). Yes, this is when having our own RO/DI unit would really pay off in convenience at least!

Wish us luck.

- D
__________________

__________________
don_chuwish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 06:49 AM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,348
Couple things. First, good luck! That sounds like a major undertaking and I don't envy you.
Second, this might be a good time to have some fun with the aquascaping. Next time I upgrade my tank, I'll be building a PVC pipe frame to take the rock higher and make it more stable.
You should take before and after pics if you change anything. Hope it goes smoothly!
__________________

__________________
Someone stop me! Please! But... not just yet...
55 Gal Tropical FW
55 Gal Mixed Reef
MacDracor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 08:18 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
don_chuwish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 256
OK, so yesterday was long & late, but we got it done. Isn't it amazing how long it takes to put together a rock scape? The old setup was all in the middle of the tank, which we thought was a bit limiting. Some before & after pics follow.

Rock scape pretty much covered in frags, not much room for more or to give them enough room:









During the tear down we had it down to the last rock with the shrimp & goby pair's den below it:





I left the filter running as I rinsed sand, but with just foam & floss packed in:



Down to the last bit of rinsing & using a siphon:



Continued on next post!
__________________
don_chuwish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 08:32 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
don_chuwish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 256
Starting to refill & heat up, clarity came back pretty quickly:



All new rock scape!! Maybe not final, coral placements certainly aren't. It was very late and we just wanted to get things back in the tank.









You'll just have to ignore the little plastic container. This is the pistol shrimp's temporary home for the next 8 weeks. We figured it'd make it easier to reunite the pair at the end of it all.

We got more rock in than before but somehow it still looks like the tank has more room.

Only one MIA after all this. The cleaner shrimp went back in the tank OK, but today is either very will hidden or ... let's just say he's shy. We hope.
The little Pom Pom crab that can never be found before/while moving rocks around has even resurfaced.

- D
__________________
don_chuwish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 08:49 PM   #5
AA Team Emeritus
 
cmor1701d's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 7,814
Not sure I understand where everything is right now.
All fish are out of the DT and in a QT. The QT tanks are either at 1.009 SG or on the way there, correct? It takes a couple of days or so to get down to that level without severely stressing the fish. Allow about double that to bring the SG back up after the treatment period is over.

The DT was torn down, sand was rinsed with ??? water.
Did you really put RODI water into the DT and add back the corals?
You need to use aged (overnight) sw mixed to what the DT was at (1.025?).

The DT most likely is going to cycle again. That will likely kill all inverts and corals.

Hyposalinity means keeping the QT at 1.009 for 6-8 weeks. Let it go to 1.010 and start the timer over.

See Hyposalinity for the treatment plan.
cmor1701d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 10:26 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,348
There's always the risk of a cycle when breaking down a tank, or even making a major change in an established tank. The Live Rock should help a little bit, but one thing you can do is add in a bacterial culture to keep ahead of any die off.
__________________
Someone stop me! Please! But... not just yet...
55 Gal Tropical FW
55 Gal Mixed Reef
MacDracor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 02:17 AM   #7
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
don_chuwish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 256
@cmor1701d - Thanks for the link, that's one article I hadn't read yet. I did a LOT of reading prepping for this, we had a week to consider the worst case. But I see differing opinions around about how fast to go hypo. Some seem to say straight in, others the 3 day reduction plan. Most of what I'd read was that it was more effective to go straight to hypo.
We did about a 2 hour drip as a compromise. Double the volume, throw away half, double the volume again. 24 hours later they seem to be fine.
Also have seen 1.008-.009 as the range, and .009-.010 as the range. Given that we don't yet have the refractometer we need, I opted to err on the high side. Once we have it I'll go to .009.

Only one tank is hypo, calling it the HT. Our other "QT" tank has the Six Line Wrasse and Perc pair that have never left QT, so they'll just stay there.

Guess I should better outline how the tear down & rebuild went.

We prepped 2 plastic bins with some salt mix the night before, same salinity as DT (measured at 1.024). About half as much as we'd need in each. Got movement & heat going. Also mixed 3 buckets worth of salt mix (all from dechlorinated tap) at about 1.015 to be ready for the sand rinsing. (Call me cheap, didn't want to waste too much salt!)

Next afternoon we siphoned off quite a bit of DT water into the bins and transferred corals into one, LR & critters into the other.

Did a LOT of sand stirring with just remaining DT water & running the filter. Then siphoned out more & replaced with a 5G bucket of mix. Stir, Repeat for 3 buckets, then siphoned out all the last of the murky water.

The tank was refilled with about 60% new RO/DI mix & 40% original DT water & day old salt mix from the bins. The RO/DI mix was made at about 4PM and added to the tank with just sand in it. Filter & heaters going, we warmed to about 75deg before putting back in the LR & new dry base rock and playing with the aquascape.
Around midnight we called it good & started transferring corals & critters back in. So about 60% of the water was 8 hour old mix. Maybe a bit soon but hopefully not horribly so for the corals.

I'm not expecting TOO much of a re-cycle since we kept all the LR very much Live and the sand was rinsed with salt water. All the bio-filter in the Fluval 305 was kept alive too.

We'll be feeding the tank so it should stay bio-active & we'll keep an eye on the numbers. No ammonia yet today.

Thanks for the info & advice, we'll keep the thread updated as we go.

- D
__________________
don_chuwish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 11:38 AM   #8
AA Team Emeritus
 
cmor1701d's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 7,814
That sounds MUCH BETTER! All except the part of stressing fish bu going straight from 1.025 to 1.010 SG. Not saying they won't survive, just that it's additional stress.

The QT has the Six Line Wrasse and the Pair of True Percs, correct?
This tank has not been treated and is running normal SG (1.025)?
Good procedure, make sure to keep the fish there for another 30 days at a minimum.

So the HT now has the royal gramma, Banggai Cardinal, Green Clown Goby, and the High Fin Red Banded Goby, correct?
Did you add some PVC or other items to be used as resting/hiding spots?
What are you doing for filtration?
You may need to to do twice daily ~20% pwc's for a week or more till the bio-filter is established to keep the water parameters in check.

Without a calibrated refractometer you don't for sure what the SG is in the HT. Get on ASAP along with some calibration fluid. Keep it at 1.009, not 1.010 as the former is the gold standard.

Stick with the Hypo regimen for 6 weeks minimum after you get the refractometer. If any of the fish in QT shows any signs, start Hypo there too and let that tank go for 6 weeks of Hypo treatment.

This can be beat. My tank has been Ich free for 4 or 5 years now following a similar tear down to get all my fish out (I left the sand bed alone).

Good luck and keep us posted.
cmor1701d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 01:27 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
don_chuwish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 256
Thanks again, you've got it right.

HT has some plastic decorations & I cut a plastic bottle in half vertically to create two little hidey holes. Three sides of the tank painted black too. Two PF10 HOB filters running, one with the standard filter inserts & one with a packet of Purigen. But certainly no bio-filter alive yet. I'll get a pic up later for interest. Barely a trace of ammonia yesterday (< .25 on API) & we'll test again today with our new Salifert kit.

pH is the bugger, gonna be cooking some sodium bicarb today.
I've read to mix up 1lb/G and then add 'as needed' to adjust pH. Also read to use 1tsp/20G and check an hour later. I don't want big swings so I'm a little worried about the 'dosing' levels. Any advice there? Again, 15G tank.

Thanks!

- D
__________________
don_chuwish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 03:44 PM   #10
AA Team Emeritus
 
cmor1701d's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 7,814
YES. Arm and Hammer baking SODA from the grocer. Use it to adjust Alkalinty. Keep Alk, Calcium and Magnesium (~3x Ca) in line and don't chase pH.

Use 2 1/4 cups Arm & Hammer per gallon of water.
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System
__________________

cmor1701d is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ich

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tim's 54 Gallon Corner -> Going Reef TLTGF Saltwater Reef Aquaria 1490 01-06-2014 01:16 PM
ich help!!!! Marcquez08 Saltwater & Reef - Sick Fish or Coral 32 02-29-2012 10:49 AM
so ive got ich rreekers Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 22 02-21-2012 03:15 AM
Baby mollies have ich HELP! CMN Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 5 02-19-2012 11:13 PM
Cloudy water after change not going away. felacosta Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 2 02-19-2012 09:08 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.