Fish are dying! I did everything right!

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Ladykrup

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
33
Location
Mount Vernon, NY
Maybe someone can give me some advice! We set up our 55 gal. tank with 46lb. of live rock - followed the directions of the fish dealer perfectly. Waited about 6 weeks, tested the water, recorded the test results, visited the fish dealer every Sat. with my little written results, etc.
Finally, last weekend we were ready for fish. He said "three small fish." We chose a tiny clown (just like Nemo, named him Nemo), one tiny Hippo Tang (Dory) (My daughter is 7!), and the half fuschia, half yellow minnow like fish. We did the drip line, didn't put the fish store water in our tank, etc. Nemo stayed in one spot by the rock, hardly ever moved from that spot, wouldn't eat. Occasionally he would move to another rock but never swam until the fourth day wildly up at the top of the tank and then DEAD. Now, 2 days later, the Tang is dying (Tang has been rubbing himself on the rocks since we brought him home! Don't think this is good). The other fish is fine. My question - is it my tank or were these sick fish to start? I feel really guilty, my daughter is in tears! Need some objective advice. thanks
 
to me the Tangs problem sounds like the dreaded Ick. If she is scratching on rocks, she is trying to rid herself of the parasite. I would take her out and quarantine her, or if there is no other invertabrates in the tank then you could just treat the tank. But of course, quarantine is the best answer. Also, something I have tried. I do not have room for an additional tank to quarantine fish. But the LFS happens to be a good friend of mine, and he has taken my fish and treated for me. Of course, I trust him, and we are 50/50 so far. Saved one and lost one. But, hey, that is just my 2 cents.
 
Thanks for your reply. Little blue tang is dead now. Is this unusual for two out of three fish to be sick when you buy them? They had to be sick when they came, it hasn't even been one week!
 
couple things, if you have a SW tank you need to test your water yourself regularly until you have learned enough about your individual system to maintain it to a point where levels dont change drasticaly over the week. Buy a good set of test kits. I prefer Salifert, but any brand is better than nothing.

you want 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and around 20ppm nitrates should be ok for you for now because you don't have any corals/anenomes etc. Check your pH 8.2 ish is what you want, specific gravity 1.023-1.025

Definitly follow Macatua's advice on a quarentine. We have an article here on how to set up a quick and easy Quarantines. I would avoid "treating the whole tank" even though you don't have inverts, as the treatments will ALWAYS remain in the system and make it difficult to EVER have inverts.

You also might want to check out ourRecomended Books section. Having them on hand is almost better than having us on hand ;o)

post back your test results and we'll work on where to go from there.
 
Also, I don't think the fish were necessarilt sick before you bougth them. Tangs are very susceptible to Ick, especially when stressed. When a fish is moved, it becomes stressed. That is why a proper acclimation is necessary. However with Tangs, for some reason they are extremely susceptible to Ick. So I don't think it was the fault of the LFS, simply a fish that got Ick and couldn't recover.

BTW, I am sorry for your losses. Tell your little girl that we all know it is very sad to lose our fishy friends, but she will find a new pal soon ;)
 
your half fuschia half yellow minnow like fish sounds like a royal dottyback and they ar very hardy. i agree with what eveyone said about tangs they are prone to get ick.the clownfish however is usually pretty hardy.
 
Is the ick something they develope themselves or is it a parasite or bacteria? Could it get the ick and die within five days? He bacame very faded this morning, yesterday he was still very blue!

We will go to the fish store tomorrow, they are very helpful there and know what they are doing. We will try again!
 
i'd wait at least a week before you add anymore fish because ick can live 3 to 5 days without a host. ick is a parasite.
 
Actually.. once you've had a death from ich.. you should leave the tank "fallow" without a fish host for the parasite for at least a month, if not 6 weeks. Ich is a parasite that lives in three forms.. a cyst (like an egg) that hangs out in the bottom of the tank (it can stay in this form for some time), then a free floating "bug" seeking a fish .. and then in an attached "alien" form.. it attaches to the fishes body, but most especially the soft gill parts, and proceeds to eat the fishes' respiritory system, thus killing the fish. If indeed your fish had ich, the scratching behavior you noticed was an attempt by the fish to scrape the itchy parasites from it's skin. Other culprits could be : Marine Velvet .. much the same as ich, although moves much faster.. same treatment recommended: Removing all surviving fish to a "treatment tank" See the link mentioned before) treatment of the hospital tank with copper medications (although this is not recommended for clownfish).. and leaving your display tank empty of fish (invertebrates are fine) for a month to 6 weeks. The Ich and velvet parasites are invertebrates and are killed by copper.. but if you treat your display tank with copper, all the "good" invertebrates you might want to add later (shrimp, lobsters, corals, ect.) would quickly die as copper can never be completely removed from a tank once it is introduced (thus the treatment tank). The other culprit could be an outside contaminate: Perfumes, nicotine, chocolate chip cookies :) Prevention: Wash your hands and anything else going into the tank with clean water (not soap), complete drying of hands.. or use dedicated rubber gloves, tight fitting cover.. NO METAL utensils used near or in your saltwater tank. Treatment: Make sure you have activated carbon in your filtration system.. this removes most harmful toxins.

Hope that helps: Also.. I question the wisdom of placing a Hippo tang (or any tang) in such a system. Hippo tangs can grow to be as big as 12" long and need a large amount of space to swim.. once your tank is stabilized.. why not try one of the dwarf angels instead? Just as colorful.. but don't grow as big. Stick with it.. I promise.. you will get through this.. we all have had run in's with parasites.. We are all still here :)
 
what do you guys think about a fresh water dip? i have several friends that swear dipping a fish that has ich or gill flukes will cure it. the fish can only tolerate a minute or two in the fresh water, but the parasite can't tolerate any fresh water. i've never done this myself, but i wish i could have at least tried this on my now dead blue spot jawfish.
 
as far as the dottyback is concerned, it can also be a very aggressive fish. you may find that it will pick on weaker species of fish. they're great for removing bristle worms
 
:lach:

I tried the freshwater dip on my Purple tang & it was great, the only thing is it will only emove the parasites on him, not the ones in the tank. By saying this, unless its a matter of life or death, then do it if not treat yout tank. :D
 
If your purple and gold fish had a little black around its face and on its dorsal fin, it could have been a Royal Gramma Basslet. While they are often described as easy to keep, I have found them to be quite delicate and no longer buy them. Sad, because they have a neat personality and add beautiful flashes of color to the reef as they dash from hiding hole to hiding hole.

My "do not buy" lists includes all tangs. They are among my favorites but are so Ich-prone that I just don't have the time to deal with them. Bangaii (Kaudern) Cardinals are also on that list, though I've had really good luck with Pajama Cardinals.

As long as a tank is Ich-free, clowns do well and are fairly hardy. I've had several varieties, but I most enjoy watching my tomato and maroon clowns as they dote, fret, fuss and worry over their anemones. They are only aggressive towards other fish when they trespass too close to my clowns' anenomes; then they are just chased away. They will also vigorously shove rocks, snails, feather duster tubes and any other trespassers out of their space.

In general, I've found blennies and gobies to be most hardy -- and very entertaining.
 
My personal experience with six reef tanks has been that a tank that has been cycled for 6 weeks will still be very raw and unstable. It seems to take about six months for a reef tank to stabilize. One sign of stabilization is for the tank to have gone through one or more nuisance algae cycles, to have begun growing corraline algae, and to have noticeably active live sand chock full of micro-critters.

Also, all my tanks are doing better since I switched from "store bought" filters to deep sand beds. More info on "DSBs" is available on www.wetwebmedia.com.
 
My personal experience with six reef tanks

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Would love to see some pics ;)
 
Lots of good advice here. A few things to add. Check your temp and may want to consider bringing it to 82 degrees or so. Do it slowly if your one remaining fish is still alive. IF it was ick, the higher temp will help to kill off the parasite.

Also, get your test kit right away and check your water quality. With the clown going first and then the Tang, I almost want to say that a stressful environment was at fault. The tank will be unstable for a while after the 'cycle' ends.

Also, when buying your next round of fish. Spend some time at the store. watch them for a while and make sure you see them eat. Eating is a good indicator of its general well being. Most here will suggest, putting a down payment on the fish and coming back for him in a few days to ensure he still healthy> I've never been able to do that (for various reasons) so I spend more time watching the fish in the display tank and his tank mates. If things look funky they probably are, so trust your instincts too.
 
I have a feeling the introduction of those different species are a possibility. I would recommend getting a book for purposes of information and classification of the fish. There is actually 2 different types of ich: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (freshwater ich) and Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich). When the fish first starts to get symptoms you will notice little white or grayish spots. The fish will rub itself to rid of ich as implied earlier in this thread. Coloration of fish will fade, and the skin will cloud over. The parasite will the consume the fish and case tissue destruction, hemorrhages, inflammations, and skin disinegration. If not treated in time the fish will eventually die within 5 days. The ich consists of 4 round part memebranes from every white spot. It then drops off the host (fish infected) and falls to the bottom, then forms a capsale around itself. After 6-9 days more than 200 cells leave the capsale to find a new host. They then have 24 hours to find a new host or otherwise they die. Raising the temp will only benefit and slow the process down if the temp is raised a minimum of 83-86 degrees. This can very difficult for the fish and inverts to endure and must last at least 3 weeks.

On the good side of things surviving fish and ones that will shed the ich for no host will become, to a certain extent, immune to the disease and parasite. :D

Thats probably why my 2 clowns are still living even after 2 introductions of ich. 0X Cross my fingers and knock on wood.
 
Thanks everyone for responding to my question. Here is an update and more trauma. Took the hippo tang corpse back to the fish store and the guy said no ick on that fish. So we bought a lunar wrasse, love him. Things were going fine for two weeks. Went back to the fish store, our regular guy wasn't there (now I'm doing all the tests every week, everything was great) and we bought a little flame angel and a foxface rabbitfish. Now, one week later wrasse starts rubbing on the rocks (Oh No!) and the royal gramma basslet (that is what this fish is!) is rubbing, hiding up by the heater whenever the light is on and seems to have some white stuff on his belly. We will go to the fish store tomorrow. NO MORE FISH until I get this figured out. I guess we have the ick in there. My husband just about murdered me when I told him I was going to set up a hospital tank. He doesn't want another tank, but I really see no alternative. Two questions: what about a UV sterilizer, will that cure this horrible plague? And will all these four fish die? I can't stand to keep murdering fish! Thank you for your help.
 
You need a QT tank to quaratine your new livestock for several weeks before adding them to the main tank. 4 -6 weeks is what is recommeded but some people (incuding me) only QT for 2 weeks. I had a small ICH outbreak, removed the fist to the QT tank and treated him for 6 weeks (hyposalinlty). He was fine when I put him back in the main tank. I'm sure the parasite is in the tank, just waiting for the right conditions to break out again, but I don't have a large enough QT tank for fallow the main tank for 4-6 weeks.

I run a UV but don't see how that can stop ICH. If it free floating inthe water column for only short period of it's live span.

You need to remove ALL fish from the main tank for 4-6 weeks while treating the fish in a QT environment. Barring that, the main tank is going to have ICH present and waiting to break out when conditions are right. At least that's the information I've gleaned from everything I've read. One of these days I'm going to get a larger QT tank so I can rid the main tank of this parasite. I just hope I don't stress the fish too much when I do this.
 
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