Fish Dying in New Aquarium... Hopefully not the everyday stupid questions

[Kurt_Nelson]

I think just slowing down might yield different results. Personally, I think you're just adding too much, too fast. Even with a cycled tank, you need to increase the bioload slowly. I think if you just add a fish a month, and give them a 4 week quarantine period in a separate tank, you'd see different results.

 

[Erok7620]

I agree with Kurt. You need to slow it down. I made that mistake too, I wanted it all and I wanted it now. You should consider taking the anenomes back, I dont believe you have adequate lighting or a mature enough tank yet. Just my $.02

 

[gzeiger]

A freshwater bacteria colony can certainly be stored the way you're talking about, provided you add ammonia regularly to keep it fed. I don't know if you have the same species of bacteria in your saltwater, and even if they are I assume they would do something to acclimate to the salinity, so I would expect a rapid change from full salt to DI water would kill pretty much anything with an osmotic membrane.

Have all these fish been getting the same food?

 

[Copepod]

That's a thought...the food...also...how far from your tank is the washing machine? I have read on sites about people having to move their cat's litter pans due to the ammonia...I had to basically quit using bleach myself..

Can't stop thinking about your poor tank, Deb...just thinking of different things...I do agree with the guys that you must add stock slowly though as I made that goof myself a few years ago. I just can't understand the absense of ammonia...when I cured my LR in a Brute...I had to change the water the next day and the day after because ammonia was off the charts...and when I added it 3 weeks later to the tank, it did a quick cycle in there..this is really a stumper...sure hope someone can solve it.

Luck
--------------

Curly

 

[debonair23]

Thank you all for the good advice. You may be right about adding the fish too fast... I'm just so use to fresh water... I could add five at a time, do daily water changed for a week or two to keep ammonia down, and everyone would be perfectly fine without the slightest problem.

Just as an update... of the two clowns I got, one died this morning. When I was pulling him out, I noticed the second one was breathing faster. I snatched him up and put him in a QT tank and put some melafix in... I didn't know what else to do and that treats a whole host of different things, so I figured it couldn't hurt the situation. He's not looking any worse now, but he isn't looking any better either.

Innovator sent me a PM with a pretty good suggestion that I think I'm going to try... He suggested taking a spare tank (a cheap 10 gal petco kit I got several months back in my case), thoroughly cleaning it out (obviously without soap or any of that), and putting RO/DO water mixed with salt and set to the same pH as my main tank. Use the raw shrimp method to get the cycle going, then take a couple blue damsels and put them in to see what happens. If nothing goes awry in a week, then take some live rock from the main tank and put it in. If all goes well, then maybe some sand from the main tank and basically keep going until the fish start looking unhappy and then I have found the culprit.

At this point... that really seems like the only plausible way to solve this thing.

 

[gzeiger]

Did you use new water for the sick fish, or just tank water? Since it's already sick its death in clean water won't rule anything out, but it would be good to know if he made a quick recovery in new water.

Stocking slowly is good advice in general for fish health and also to limit the work required from you, but I don't buy for a minute that overstocking is what caused your problem given the frequency of water tests.

 

[Copepod]

It's possible you are getting something from your water....do you have a copper test? I would definitely do one on your tap water. How old is your house? Older pipes and water systems can certainly bring in metals. I would rule it out.

Sorry you lost another.

---------------

Curly

 

[gzeiger]

He said he's running it through an RO unit, which should rule that out.

 

[debonair23]

I used tank water for the sick fish. I didn't want him to have the stress of acclimating to new water on top of everything else so I figured the old water may be whats best, even though he got sick in that to begin with.

As of this morning, his breathing has slowed down just a hair, but it's still way too fast and now he's swimming toward the top of his QT tank getting air from the surface. He's swimming fairly normally (other than being at the top). There is no excrement in the tank which makes me thing he's not eating too well (usually when I put a fish in the QT tank overnight theres some sort of waste).

I'm off to do an ammonia test on the QT tanks water to rule that out as a reason for him swimming at the top.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Stocking slowly is good advice in general for fish health and also to limit the work required from you, but I don't buy for a minute that overstocking is what caused your problem given the frequency of water tests.

Are oxygen tests being performed? I'm not just talking about ammonia...

There are hundreds of parameters that effect fish/coral health, and as hobbiests we only test for literally a handful. And we don't really understand how those things we don't test for can come into play in our tanks. Normally... people stock tanks slowly and they don't have problems. Normally... when people stock tanks fast, they have problems.

I don't claim to know exactly what the problem is, but it sure seems like the absolute simplest thing to do is slow down. While freshwater tanks and saltwater tanks are similar, they're also very different in their tolerance for mistakes.

 

[Innovator]

The reasoning behind the QT suggestion is because typical aquarium environments are anything but sterile. There are numerous factors as to what could be happening with your system and with any system, but a QT is a controlled environment. My thoughts are if you can keep fish alive in your QT then that rules out any problems with your water sources, QT water parameters, acclimation procedures, and livestock sources. This would leave room to concentrate on other possibilities and allow you to document any "happenings" with your tank for that time being. That is my only point other than I always recommend QT's I also agree that patience is most virtuous

 

[debonair23]

Are oxygen tests being performed? I'm not just talking about ammonia...

There are hundreds of parameters that effect fish/coral health, and as hobbiests we only test for literally a handful. And we don't really understand how those things we don't test for can come into play in our tanks. Normally... people stock tanks slowly and they don't have problems. Normally... when people stock tanks fast, they have problems.

I don't claim to know exactly what the problem is, but it sure seems like the absolute simplest thing to do is slow down. While freshwater tanks and saltwater tanks are similar, they're also very different in their tolerance for mistakes.

I understand that there are thousands of things other than what I have tests for... but the problem is, I have no idea how to test those things. Like, for instance, how would one go about testing the level of oxygen in the water?

 

[Innovator]

DO meter = Dissolved Oxygen meter I doubt this is the case, though.

 

[gzeiger]

Me too. Low oxygen would most likely indicate a problem with the filter's water circulation combined with a massive source of decaying material in the tank (inconsistent with the ammonia readings reported) and the fish moved to QT should have recovered rapidly (I assume).

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think my point was lost. Sorry... internet forums sometimes leave much to be desired!

My point wasn't literally that oxygen levels should be checked. Instead, I was trying to point out that there are many other parameters - some checkable, some not - that go into what makes fish healthy. And just because ammonia and nitrites are fine doesn't mean there isn't a water quality issue. (FYI... Salifert makes a dissolved O2 test kit.) There's good reason that tanks aren't fully stocked in a matter of a month - and that's because if it was a successful way to do it, then we'd all be doing it!

I don't mean to beat a dead horse as it's obvious what my opinion is on this thread, but I just felt I needed to clarify my last post. I hope you get things figured out debonair - reef tanks are a fantastic thing to watch.

 

[Copepod]

Hi Deb, just wondered if things were getting any better in your tank. Keep us posted...we only want to help.

Sending luck your way.

--------------

Curly

 

[lynxpilot]

Two questions. What is the substrate in the tank? Also, from your first post you mentioned plumbing with black PVC. I wouldn't expect any PVC glue to be a problem because it has to meet standards for human use. Black pipe is ABS which is normally used on drain pipes. I have no idea if it has anything in it that could be harmful, but might be worth a look. Why did you use black pipe? Check where you bought the pipe and see if there is a warning about using on drain pipes only. Some ABS is coated with an algacide, so the same reason you would use only aquarium safe silicone, it's probably best to stick with PVC that is used for water supply (as opposed to drainage).

 

[debonair23]

Still not much better... I still have the same fish that seem to be doing ok (two blue damsels and a cardinal), but now whatever was killing the fish seems to have moved onto he anemones. The bubble anemone seems to have fallen off his rock and dropped face first into the sand where he has stayed for the last half a day (i'm assuming this means it is dead). Then the anemone in the middle (can't remember the name... it's the one with the long white tentacles and the little purple tips at the end) has completely reeled it's tentacles inside and closed itself off so I'm assuming thats not too good either. The green one still seems to be doing fine.

I'm using tahitian moon sand from petsmart as substrate. I used the black pipe since the stand and tank rim are both black and theres no paint on the back or anything so I didn't want a bright white pipe sticking out like a sore thumb in the back of the tank. The guy at lowes said there were no warnings on the black pipe and it was just dyed differently... He didn't feel there would be any sort of problems using it as a supply line.

Per innovator's suggestion, I'm now setting up a 10gal hospital (testing) tank. I've added the black tahitian moon sand, put salt water from my mixing can in it, set the heater to 80 (just to facilitate the bacterial growth), and added 10 jumbo pieces of raw shrimp to the tank. I also got a small marineland biowheel HOB filter and put it on so the bacteria has a good place to grow. Once the cycle is complete, I'll throw a blue damsel, chromi, and clown in (the three that i've lost so far) and see how they do. Do you think adding those three at once would be deadly or should I do one at a time spread out over a week or two? Assuming all goes well, I'll try putting a piece of my black PVC pipe in and see what happens... that should be a pretty good indication of whether or not I goofed up there.

 

[Innovator]

The question would be if the black pvc is graded abs or potable? The glue used is your pvc 'all-purpose' cement/solvent or Red Hot Blue Glue. Pvc pimer and cement also comes in clear I would siphon the gravel from the quarantine unless it is in a bag for cycling purposes. It is just another variable otherwise. Quarantine tanks should have nothing more than a small filter (hob or sponge), a heater, and pvc or other inert decor for hiding. Once cycled you can acclimate some damsels (Search this forum for relatively non-aggressive to shy damsels) and see how they react.

 

[buddha_red]

Does the black sand buffer your water? What's your PH?