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Old 03-05-2004, 03:46 PM   #1
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HELP !!! Ich??

I have an established 150 gal sw tank and about a month ago I added a flame angel and a week or so later I added a Coral Beauty which was promptly taken out by a small Trigger. So three weeks since last fish was added and it appears that I have the first signs of an infestation. No spots are visible on any of the fish, but a few days ago the Flame started rubbing on the rocks, a day later my Tang started doing it, and today I've noticed my Trigger and Porcupine doing it. (tank also has another puffer, a Lion, and a cowfish)

My LFS guru isn't answering his phone and I'm in a panic.

Should I add copper now or what?? Everyone is happy and eating well, my levels are all good. (although I did increase water temperature a few degrees about a week ago)

Please help
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Old 03-05-2004, 04:47 PM   #2
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Don't ever .... EVER add copper to your main tank. It will completely destroy any and all inverts, and it will soak into your rock and substrate. It is very difficult to remove. If you don't have a DSB, and don't need to worry about any inverts including dusters, worms pods, ect. I would high suggest hyposalinity. No removing fish, and is effective. By the way it is great your wanting to act now. Any rubbing is not good, and you obviously caught it early.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html

Best of luck
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Old 03-05-2004, 05:02 PM   #3
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Thanks for the quick response. Has anyone had any luck with Garlic? Ive heard that it can help, but with my first experience with Ick I couldnt tell that it made a difference. I have access to a UV sterilizer as well and am wondering if I shouldnt rush to get it and hook it up.
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:57 PM   #4
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I disagree if your treating ick for a FO tank. Copper is a very effective method of treating ick. Of course you need to consider the brand of copper. Over the past 25 yrs of keeping marine FO tanks, I've never had a disaster from dosing with copper. I do recommend Seachem's Cupramine over any other brand though. Copper is a lethal substance, but it also seems that Cupramine is in a less lethal formulation. Copper will be absorbed by your dead coral decorations and your crushed coral substrate so to have a correct ppm, you do need to test for concentration when treating for the copper to be effective. You also need to turn off any skimmers, UVs, ozonizers and remove your carbon. Once your treatment is over, you can turn on these equipment, perform a water change and add new carbon and the copper levels will be almost undetectable. (well undetectable with a copper test kit, but we all know that the dead coral & substrate will have absorbed some of this copper)
As with Hypo-salinity, in my experience, you need to bring the salinity all the way down to 1.010 SG for this to be theraputic. You need at least 7 days to bring this down from 1.024 SG ( no more than .002 per day). If you have a outbreak and did not catch it from the beginning, then 7 days might be too late. I've had success also with hypo-salinity, but I've also had a outbreak @ 1.014 SG.

If you have any inverts or live rock, then none of these options are for you.
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Old 03-06-2004, 12:09 AM   #5
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If your going to use copper, then it's best to set up a quarentine tank. Once it's absorbed into the rock and substrate you can no longer keep inverts if you ever decide to. Since some of the copper will leach out over time. If you want to use copper set up a quarentine, or do hyposalinity.
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Old 03-06-2004, 12:31 AM   #6
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Since I have two puffers and a trigger inverts are not an option anyway. I tried live rock about a year ago and my trigger tore it up pretty good. I did treat with Cupramine before I read Six-Line's post, but I am still running my skimmer and I added a UV sterilizer today (should I turn this off???)

Other than the UV and skimmer all I have is a wetdry, no carbon (I found out I dont care for carbon in my SW tank)
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Old 03-06-2004, 01:08 AM   #7
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I'm pretty sure some if not all puffers can not tolerate copper.
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Old 03-06-2004, 11:25 AM   #8
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When you use cupramine or any medication, you need to turn off your skimmer or it will pull the meds right out of the water. The Uv also needs to be turned off as per the manufacturers directions.
jamal-188 is correct about puffers & copper though. I think you need to do a little bit of research on them. If I remember correctly, they do not tolerate any copper meds well due to them being scaleless?
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Old 03-06-2004, 03:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal-188
I'm pretty sure some if not all puffers can not tolerate copper.
If used properly, puffers will tolerate Cupramine just fine. Ionic copper is what can prove fatal. They also do well in a hyposaline treatment. FYI, an SG of 1.014 is still enough for the parasite to survive albeit the reproductive stage is slower. 1.009 SG or preferabley 14 ppt measured with a refractometer is the best level for hyposalinity. The hyposaline environment should also be maintained for a full 4 weeks, 7 days is not enough time.

Cheers
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Old 03-06-2004, 03:57 PM   #10
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When I first got my porcy he was about 9" long and developed a bad case off Ich soon after he entered my tank I treated with Cupramine (about 2 years ago) he survived it just fine. There were some scary moments during the treatment because I was a noob and didn't catch the Ich till it was probably in it's second cycle. I also used Garlic at the time but the only advantage it seemed to give was stimulating his appetite.

So I'm not concerned about the porcy and copper but maybe a bit worried about my cowfish and stars and stripes now.

Almost no rubbing today at all, only the Angel is doing it and he isnt doing it very much. This doesnt make any sense does it? The treatment wont do any good for Ich except in larval and egg form, right?

BTW I am new to the forums...sorry for posting this in the wrong section. I wondered why there were no Ich questions in here!!!!
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