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Old 02-18-2005, 11:57 PM   #1
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Help to diagnose ick

Well my main has been empty for 3 weeks since losing my clowns to suspected ick. Just got replacements 2 days ago and put them in QT. All is great with eating and behavior. Tonight before lights out I noticed 5 spots on one of the clowns. Two on the tail fin, one on the top fin and two on one side of the body. Spots are white and look exactly like the spots on my previous clowns.

Is this ick?
How long to wait and see if it is an ick "outbreak"?
I lost my 1st clowns in a couple of days- how long does ick take to KILL?

I am still going to QT for 4 weeks either way but not sure if I need to treat or keep watching. TIA
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2 O. Clowns
1 peppermint shrimp, 5 red leg hermit crabs,
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ricordea mushroom, candy cane coral,
super color polyps, hairy mushrooms
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Old 02-19-2005, 12:31 PM   #2
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Spots do not necessarily mean the presence of C. irritans nor a parasite for that matter. It's definately something to watch closely. If your not sure how to properly ID the parasite if there is one, beginning a treatment would be a bit hit and miss. One sure tell tale sign is if the spots dissappear and then come back a few days later. Basically your looking for small white nodes the size of a grain of sugar which are raised off the boby, not flat and smooth.

How long it takes to kill the fish is not an easy answer but if you want to put it in general terms a few weeks. It depends on too many variables to give a proper answer. Suffice it to say that if the previous fish had C. irritans, they would have been infested well before you got them. C. irritans unto itself ill not kill in days, velvet would be a more likely culprit if spots where noticed. Amyloodiniosis is a bit smaller than Cryptocaryon and often missed.

Flashing, lethargy and loss of appetite can be signs of infestation as well.


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Old 02-19-2005, 02:58 PM   #3
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Well I checked this morning and the spots on the body are gone. The tail spots are still there but you can barely see them. One new spot on the lower fin. I have seen no flashing but did notice he was not interested in feeding this AM. Still swimming all the time. My LFS does not have any copper treatments so I am getting some tonight just in case. I will watch for a couple of days to try and get a positive ID before treatment. I have been feeding flakes with seachem garlic and will continue with this unless advised otherwise. Thanks Steve-s

Will the fish ever get completely covered like I see in most pictures or are the few bumps I see common? What can I look for to distinguish it from velvet or other problems?
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28gal bowfront
40lbs livesand(bag from LFS), 30lbs live rock(LR.com)
2 O. Clowns
1 peppermint shrimp, 5 red leg hermit crabs,
4 mexican turbo snails, 15 nassarius snails
ricordea mushroom, candy cane coral,
super color polyps, hairy mushrooms
bubble coral, hawiian feather duster
coralife lunar 2x65, HOT magnum canister
10 Gal refugium(chaeto) & seaclone skimmer
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Old 02-19-2005, 03:07 PM   #4
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only one of my fish had a bump two days ago , and now everysingle one of em except for my pregnant swordtail has visible signs.
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Old 02-19-2005, 05:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMPD109
Well I checked this morning and the spots on the body are gone. The tail spots are still there but you can barely see them. One new spot on the lower fin.
If you see any more additional spots other than the one you have seen on the fin, I would suggest starting treatment.

Quote:
Will the fish ever get completely covered like I see in most pictures or are the few bumps I see common?
It's not as common as you think unless neglected. Heavy infestations won't always happen if the water is good and the fish is otherwise healthy. Their natural immune system will fight them to a certain extent. If left without treatment for several life cycles of the parasite it will eventually be heavily coated though.

Quote:
What can I look for to distinguish it from velvet or other problems?
Velvet will typically be much smaller than Cryp similar to a grain of salt. It can sometimes look like a sheen of gold coating the fish when the angle/lighting is right.

If your sure it's parasitic but are unable to distinguish between the two parasites, I would opt for Cupramine as the copper treatment. Well tolerated by most fish species and will kill off either of the afore mentioned pests. I would also get the Seachem Multitest copper kit and their Ammonia alert badge if available. All will help with reading the right levels where most other kits fail.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 02-19-2005, 11:02 PM   #6
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I had a relative pickup a treatment for me. Unfortunately they did not have cupramine but they did have Mardel "coppersafe"(chelated copper sulfate). Will this treat as good? Also got a copper test kit but not seachem. I cant find any seachem tests locally so I have been using aquarium pharmaceuticals. I did purchase an ammonia alert when I first started the QT to help keep track.

Thanks Steve-s. Kudos to you for all the help. I will start treatment in the AM unless you advise not to use the "copper safe"

Oh yea- I guess I am the newest member to the steve-s fanclub
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40lbs livesand(bag from LFS), 30lbs live rock(LR.com)
2 O. Clowns
1 peppermint shrimp, 5 red leg hermit crabs,
4 mexican turbo snails, 15 nassarius snails
ricordea mushroom, candy cane coral,
super color polyps, hairy mushrooms
bubble coral, hawiian feather duster
coralife lunar 2x65, HOT magnum canister
10 Gal refugium(chaeto) & seaclone skimmer
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Old 02-20-2005, 12:04 PM   #7
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Chelated copper is okay, at least a far step above ionic. The Aquariumpharm copper kit will read the chelated version of copper just fine.

If your sure you are treating one of the two parasites we've discussed, then I would begin the treatment. Dosage is 1 tspn (5 ml) per 4 gal of water volume. Test afterwards to be sure the concentration has reached 1.5 - 2.0 mg/l. Be sure to read the directions carefully.

Cheers
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Old 02-20-2005, 02:32 PM   #8
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Check early this am showed only 1 spot on him and the most recent check by the wife says he is clean. Unfortunately I did not have the time to start treatment this am so I will tonight.

A quick read of the directions did not say how long to treat for- any suggestions?
If it is a mis diagnosis will the treatment hurt the clowns?
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28gal bowfront
40lbs livesand(bag from LFS), 30lbs live rock(LR.com)
2 O. Clowns
1 peppermint shrimp, 5 red leg hermit crabs,
4 mexican turbo snails, 15 nassarius snails
ricordea mushroom, candy cane coral,
super color polyps, hairy mushrooms
bubble coral, hawiian feather duster
coralife lunar 2x65, HOT magnum canister
10 Gal refugium(chaeto) & seaclone skimmer
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Old 02-20-2005, 04:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMPD109
Check early this am showed only 1 spot on him and the most recent check by the wife says he is clean. Unfortunately I did not have the time to start treatment this am so I will tonight.
If there are no spots, personally I would hold off on the treament just yet. If they return then definately. Best time to check is usually in the morning right after lights on.

Quote:
A quick read of the directions did not say how long to treat for- any suggestions?
Minimum 14 days upto 21 days.


Quote:
If it is a mis diagnosis will the treatment hurt the clowns?
If done correctly no, there should be no damage to the clown. It is preferable that the fish isn't prophylactically treated but your better off being safe if unsure.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 02-21-2005, 10:17 AM   #10
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No spots last night and they ate great. No spots this AM and eating like pigs. I will keep watching to be sure but all may be OK without treatment. If it is not ick how long do I wait to be sure without seeing any new spots?
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40lbs livesand(bag from LFS), 30lbs live rock(LR.com)
2 O. Clowns
1 peppermint shrimp, 5 red leg hermit crabs,
4 mexican turbo snails, 15 nassarius snails
ricordea mushroom, candy cane coral,
super color polyps, hairy mushrooms
bubble coral, hawiian feather duster
coralife lunar 2x65, HOT magnum canister
10 Gal refugium(chaeto) & seaclone skimmer
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