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Old 03-05-2007, 06:49 PM   #1
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Help With Puffer

Help please!
My main tank (fish only) had an ich outbreak. The LFS told me to use copper and that it would be ok with my fish (clown trigger, dogface puffer and 2 clowns). well, everythiing is ok except the puffer and he is my favorite. He stopped eating, and is looking very atrophied. What can I do to help him?!?! Its been 5 days since the treatment began, and he has 2-3 small spots left on him.
thank you!
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:38 PM   #2
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I have heard but haven't done it that garlic extract entices them(fish in genral) to eat. How long ago did he stop eating? Good luck. I love the dogface puffers. They seem so personable.
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:30 PM   #3
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I read (I believe on WWM ) that copper is harmful to scaleless fish .Such as puffers. I would do out some moderate water changes 25%-30% and also use fresh garlic crush and soak mysis not less than 15 minutes not more than 30 the active ingredient is allicin , it is believed to be the allicin that stimulates the feeding response ...
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:31 PM   #4
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I started the copper treatment 5 days ago. He was eating fine until the copper was added and then he wanted nothing to do with it. Where do you get the garlic extract? Grocery store/LFS ? But it is just wierd, you would have to fight him off to feed the trigger before this happened. I feel absolutely horrible for these fish right now...

I agree with the water changes, but that will dilute the copper down to the ineffective level, then my ich will recur and it would all be in vein? I have these fish stressed so much as it is right now.
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:12 PM   #5
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At this point getting them to eat is priority however they can go up to 14 days with out eating , becuase they build a natural immunity to the ich ... the fresh garlic can be found in the grocery store in the produce section , garlic extract or garlic extreme can be found at your LFS. Are you testing your copper? because this can reach toxic levels and that could also be part of your problem with him not eating . As I said earlier I can not find it now but I do remember reading that copper on a scaleless fish can be harmful to them , it was calfo that said that if I remember correctly ...
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:25 PM   #6
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http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffcareinfo.htm

http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:41 PM   #7
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Copper was tested by LFS and they said it was a bit high, but not to be concerned about and that it would come down in time, just not to add any more to the tank. They said they treat their puffers with copper in the store and they all make it thru. I dont know, I think I might just set up the 10gal QT on my next day off on Wednesday, and do the hyposalinity method. I just want my puffer to start eating again, he looks awful.
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Old 03-07-2007, 09:15 AM   #8
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Ken any updates on your puffer
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Old 03-07-2007, 04:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadielynn
... but I do remember reading that copper on a scaleless fish can be harmful to them , it was calfo that said that if I remember correctly ...
In looking for something else in Paletta's book this morning, I did find reference that hyposalinity shouldn't be used on scaleless fish - but nothing about copper. Just thought I'd throw that out since something was mentioned about using hypo.
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Old 03-07-2007, 07:38 PM   #10
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Source wwm:
Excerpt copied and pasted with link included :
Sick Mappa Puffer
Hi folks, It's been a while since I needed your help, but I now have a 5" Mappa puffer with some kind of embolism. It may be the classic air bubble, but I'm not sure. He floats very aggressively (not sure how else to put it) such that he has to work hard to keep himself off the surface and now spends his time lodged under overhangs to keep himself anchored. The potentially peculiar thing about his condition that I haven't seen mentioned before is that his buoyancy is very much in his posterior - he floats head down. There may be some body distortion back around the anus with a slight bulge on each side, but there has always been this sort of shape anyway - it may just be slightly more pronounced now. He is obviously not eating. Given the apparent location of the embolism I wondered if it might be a digestive problem of some sort. Some history now. He has been in my tank about 6 weeks. He has been eating well since acquisition with feedings consisting mostly of scallop, mussel, shrimp, blue crab, and Spectrum pellets. The symptom onset was sudden as he seemed fine yesterday morning, and couldn't swim yesterday evening. About 1 week ago I began treating the tank with copper for ich. Specifically I am using Cupramine that I have slowly ramped up to the recommended 0.5 ppm concentration. The tank unfortunately has a latent, chronic infestation that I have been unable to eradicate and it bloomed when a new fish was added a couple weeks ago. Please help - I have to go out of town for 3 days on Thursday for Christmas and besides potentially losing the puffer I could do damage to the whole tank if I have a large dead poisonous fish in there for that period of time! |
<Hi there! Sounds like your Mappa has an air bubble trapped inside his stomach, you should try ďburpingĒ him. To do this you need to hold the puffer vertically in your hand with his tale end up in the water, do not lift him above the surface or the condition will worsen. While the puffer is vertically suspended gently massage the stomach with your thumb and he should expel the extra air. Your puffer may puff up when you do this and thatís fine, it will help him to expel the air along with the water. As for the ick problem, NO COPPER MEDS EVER WITH PUFFERS!!!! Instead try hyposalinity, slowly lower the sg on the tank a few points for a couple of weeks until the ick is gone (ick canít live in lower salinity levels) when the parasite is dead raise the sg back to normal. Good Luck! LinearChaos>
puffer faq


Addtional excerpt:
Puffers and copper
Hello, enjoy you website!
Reading the article:
/The Conscientious Marine Aquarist
All My Puffers, Tobies, Box, Porcupine, Cowfishes
It states that puffers respond well to copper, yet in the forums it is repeatedly mentioned to NEVER treat a puffer with copper. Which is accurate?
Thx, Patty
<Mmm, a bit tricky here... IMO/E Tetradontiforms, including puffers do "respond well to copper"... but a necessary cautionary note here. In general, copper compounds have a narrow range of efficacy. That is, there is not much "room" between effective dosage/treatment and overdosing catastrophe... this range is even smaller/shorter with them as a group... Requiring treatment in substrate-less settings, with "new" seawater, vigilance in testing for and re-applying therapeutic copper (chelated is better here)... and a close eye on accumulating metabolites (e.g. ammonia) and ready change water to dilute same. Other WWM Crew (Ananda, likely Jeni/Pufferpunk) are against the use of copper with these fishes, preferring other chemical use... Ideally, prevention, careful dipping/bath and quarantine procedures prevail in warding off infestations... Bob Fenner>

addtional puffer faq
these are some of the articles to witch I refrenced obviously there are more articles to read but the links will take you to the full page to read the concensious there seems to be no copper with puffers HTH
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