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Old 07-14-2004, 06:23 PM   #1
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Hole in Head Disease

I recently had to move all of my fish to a quarantine tank because of an outbreak of marine velvet in my display aquarium. I've treated them with copper for about 3 weeks now and are getting close to releasing them back into the display tank. During the time that the Blue Hippo has been in the quarantine tank he has developed an ever worsening case of lateral line disease. I'm wondering if anyone knows weather the copper itself may be causing this. I understand he is probably stressed and the water quality initially suffered because it was an emergency "evacuation" from the display tank. The bicolor angelfish shows no signs of anything. Thanks!
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Old 07-14-2004, 06:52 PM   #2
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what do you feed the hippo ?? they need alot of veggies
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:04 PM   #3
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i feed them brine shrimp plus, formula two...both from ocean nutrition and I use a veggie clip for seaweed. I also have spirinula in pellet form but the fish don't seem to like it that way to much. he also grazes on algae on the live rock...at least when he was in the display aquarium.
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:39 PM   #4
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hummm not an expert on these type of issue due to ive never had such problems steve-s the advisor is soooooooooooo much better on these thing than me ! but is my thought that hole in the head is from a lack of the right diet !! hope he will chime in for you on this

what are you using for filtration ??
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Old 07-14-2004, 08:28 PM   #5
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In the quarantine tank(10 gallons) i have a mini penguin bio-wheel with a carbon filter pad. I also put some live rock in to kick start the biological filtration since it was somewhat of an emergency at the time. I do a 2 gallon water change every three days to maintain the water quality. I'm almost positive it has to do with whats going on in the quarantine tank. I've had him for about 5 months and he was in beautiful shape the whole time in the display aquarium(except when the marine velvet kicked in). I also read that lateral line disease can be caused by too much carbon, stress, poor water quality and extra electrical voltage in the tank. I just thought that maybe copper could be a cause and I just missed it somewhere. Maybe the copper has decreased the overall water quality of the quarantine tank in such a way that it causing this...even though ammonia and nitrite test fine. I'm only about 5 or 6 days away from replacing them all back into the display tank but every day his condition seems to get worse and I'm afraid it will be irreversible by the time i return him to it. Also another quick question here about the marine velvet. The recommendations that I read all call for the display tank running fish free for a month to let the parasite population crash. Is this ample time or should i push for longer. i would hate to return them to soon and have to start over again. I run an 18 watt coralife turbo-twist UV sterilizer...I turned the water flow way down for some time to help neutralize some of the free floating parasites.

Thanks scuba steve for all you time...great username by the way.

Alan
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:41 PM   #6
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yea the life cycle of ick is 1 month from egg to free floating !! so one month should be good !! also i would be doing more water changes in the qt than every 3 days ! better to have some aged salt water and change out a 1/3 every day if was me !! also in the future there are better ways to cure fish of ick over copper !! its called hyposalinity ! if ya want the link to it ill find it for you also running carbon in a qt isnt a good idea due to the carbon will absorb the copper and basically make in unaffective !

i like to know a bit more about your display tank and see if i can come up with any ideas as to why you are having issues !! it could be a simple thing !!

im glad to help along with so many on this site so keep any question coming
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:20 PM   #7
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If you are sure what the fish had was velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum), copper was the best option as hypo will have no real affect of marine velvet. If at all possible, 6 week is better when dealing with parasites. I would push for 4 weeks as the bare minimum. It's not just the main tank you need to be concerned about. Once the fish have gone through the optimal treatment time you should allow an additional 10-14 days in the QT after all meds are removed to be sure of no re-occurances.

Stress, environmental conditions and food types will definately have an effect on fish's health in general but Regals are what I would call the hypocondriacts of the marine hobby. If it's possible, they'll get it. Carbon as a cause of HLLE is a new one on me. I highly doubt that one.

The copper could have definately been a contributor if using an ionic copper. If this ever happens again I would definately suggest you use a chelated form of copper or better stil, Seachems Cupramine. If C. irritans (ich), follow scuba_steve's advice on the hyposalinity. It is the absolute least stressful treatment when done properly and will not affect the biofilter in the least.

If possible I would suggest trying to post a pic of the tang. Being you where treating for a parasite problem it is quite possible the tang is suffering from a secondary infection brought on by the actions of the parasite. That will be much easier to heal than the HLLE with simple antibiotics. If truely HLLE, you will need to get water quality up to optimal ASAP. Tangs in general do degrade quickly if so. Be sure you nix the meaty foods for the most part. Once in awhile is fine for the tang but it's diet should consist of vegetable matter high in spurlina algae. Nori is a great grazing food.

If it ends up being HLLE, I would also suggest getting some Selcon or Zoecon to soak foods in for the tang. It's very high in major vitamins and [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym]'s which will help the healing process during and after water quality has been repaired. Beta Glucan is also a great self helper if you can find it.

How many fish are in the QT?

Cheers
Steve
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:26 PM   #8
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thanks steve always learn alot from you !! guess im soooo very lucky cause ive never had these type of issue in the many years ive kept fish knock on wood but good info to know !!
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Old 07-15-2004, 02:11 AM   #9
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off the subject, but i noticed from your first post that you put a bicolor angel in copper, i thought you weren't supposed to run any angels or butterfly's in copper
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Old 07-15-2004, 11:11 AM   #10
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Depends on the type of copper, ionic being one of the worst. If treating for velvet you have little choice but if needed, using the least damaging for of copper would help such as chelates or Cupramine. Seachems Cupramine has proven time and time again to be effective in treating more sensitive fish including puffers.

Sorry to sound like an ad-vert but the product is very well put together.

Cheers
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