Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater & Reef - Sick Fish or Coral
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 03-09-2005, 06:37 PM   #31
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 602
Quote:
If you come across that thread, please post a link. I would very much like to read that as I highly disagree with it.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/

Scroll down to treatment option #4.
__________________

__________________
30 gal standard 55 lbs LR, 60 lb live sand, 10 gal sump/refugium. Urchin skimmer, mag7 pump, 3 x 96W PC combination 10,000K/actinic bulb, 2 blue LED moonlights
SG 1.024, temp 79.5, pH 8.4

Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
midiman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 06:56 PM   #32
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
revhtree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rossville. Ga
Posts: 4,500
Now I am not the expert, but the low salinity would not effect ich any parasite that was incrusted in/on the fish. Therefore the ich would have to become free swimming before the 14 day period would begin. Therefore, saying 14days could not be a completly true statment. Maybe 14 days after it becomes free swimming.
__________________

__________________
Remember to Keep Christ First!
revhtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 07:25 PM   #33
steve-s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Actually hyposalinity targets the reproductive stage thereby preventing re-infection. Considering the resistance of the little blighters, I would not consider 2 weeks long enough to be 100% sure of erradicating the parasite. 3 weeks is the suggested minumum but 4 being the prefered treatment term after the 16 ppt is reached.

I would also suggest that this is the lowest reported value when tested, not the norm. Kinda misleading if you ask me.

Cheers
Steve
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 06:24 AM   #34
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
flanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 740
From my experience there are certainly various species which are typically more susceptable than othes to infections, but that would depend on the infection as well. You can take for instance whitespot / ick and say blue tangs. I have spoken to many LFS and have seen many aquariums where the hobbiest is running not only RO water, but UV sterilisers and tripple sulpha and whitespot still infects blue tangs, all the while other fish in the tank seemingly do not have any signs of it.

I had whitespot in my tank and it completely annihilated my annularis angel, but never touched, seemingly, my red blenny, clowns or fire gobies. This was after a month of infection, and about a fortnight of follow-up treatment. Further, my temperature was raised up by two-three degrees from about 24C to 27C. On hotter days the temperature went up to 29-30C, with interesting effects on the corals - they improved their overall appearence and "livelyness".

Whitespot / ick to my knowledge is a parasite, so it must be introduced into the aquarium before there can be an outbreak. I have read and heard that it can even lay dormant, however I do not know if this is true. It does seem a little odd for a 30-day life cycle parasite.

In terms of a QT, I would probably leave all my fish in for 45 days as some infections may not "come to life" for a while. Having said that, if I have seen a fish in a LFS for a while and it still exists after a couple of weeks and it doesn't have any obvious issues, then I feel confident that it is a good candidate for a stronge fish. Not being purchased isn't a means to being a bad fish -- nobody who likes it may have seem it yet. In such instances I would probably QT it for a fortnight and evaluate the situation. If it seems strong without and obvious problems, and I have a need for the QT tank, I would put it into the main tank.

Even your water changes can introduce disease. Unless you UV or RO it beforehand, you run a more than even chance of getting a disease, but that is the nature of the hobby.

Of coarse all of the above assumes I have a QT tank, which I don't. I just temperature acclimate them for 30 minutes, then add a cup of water to the bag from the main tank every 20 minutes for another hour. From there I drain the water from the bag into the sink and let the fish slide out of the bag into the tank. No hands, no nets. I add some stress coat to the water and some bacterial suppliments and monitor the fish.

So far my only deaths have been one from whitespot, and one from being pestered by a stronger fish.

Bottom line is for me, getting disease in your main tank is just as much luck as it is careful preparation. You can QT a fish for weeks and still get an outbreak if whatever the disease is is laying dormant.
flanque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 11:50 AM   #35
steve-s
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanque
I have spoken to many LFS and have seen many aquariums where the hobbiest is running not only RO water, but UV sterilisers and tripple sulpha and whitespot still infects blue tangs, all the while other fish in the tank seemingly do not have any signs of it.
UV's are hit and miss at best unless on a very slow GPH and high enough wattage. C. irritans is actually quite hard to kill in this fashion, especially depending on the holding tank size and how often new fish are added. RO water for the most part won't have anything to do with it. Triple sulfa is an antibiotic and has no affect on it at all.

Quote:
Of coarse all of the above assumes I have a QT tank, which I don't.
Quote:
Bottom line is for me, getting disease in your main tank is just as much luck as it is careful preparation. You can QT a fish for weeks and still get an outbreak if whatever the disease is is laying dormant.
How can you possibley make any claims in regard to what a QT can do if you don't use one. As far as a disease entering the main tank after a proper period your absolutely correct but it's not an issue of dormancy, it's added after the fact or a condition due to water quality or feeding. Having a parasite enter the main is always a risk but if the fish is properly QT'd for the appropriate amount of time and treated if necessary, the fish added won't be the cause.

Cheers
Steve
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 12:33 PM   #36
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 602
Steve-s is of course 100% correct in his presentation of this topic, and I think that we all should seriously consider what he is saying. I, for one, never meant to sound like I was ARGUING with him, but that in the spectrum between recklessness and total security, I probably lie in the upper (most secure) third when it comes to introducing new fish. The method that I use will NOT guarantee that my tank won't get infected, but I am comfortable (earlier I used the word "confident", which was perhaps too strong a choice) with the risk level, considering my methods and the life cycle of the parasite (for example, while dormant individuals MAY persist for 30 days, most of them will not, etc.)

If I ever get ich in my tank, I will curse up and down (don't worry Steve, not on this board ), but one thing's for sure: I won't be able to blame Steve-s for it.
__________________
30 gal standard 55 lbs LR, 60 lb live sand, 10 gal sump/refugium. Urchin skimmer, mag7 pump, 3 x 96W PC combination 10,000K/actinic bulb, 2 blue LED moonlights
SG 1.024, temp 79.5, pH 8.4

Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
midiman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 12:37 PM   #37
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 602
Steve-s is of course 100% correct in his presentation of this topic, and I think that we all should seriously consider what he is saying. I, for one, never meant to sound like I was ARGUING with him, but that in the spectrum between recklessness and total security, I probably lie in the upper (most secure) third when it comes to introducing new fish. The method that I use will NOT guarantee that my tank won't get infected, but I am comfortable (earlier I used the word "confident", which was perhaps too strong a choice) with the risk level, considering my methods and the life cycle of the parasite (for example, while dormant individuals MAY persist for 30 days, most of them will not, etc.)

If I ever get ich in my tank, I will curse up and down (don't worry Steve, not on this board ), but one thing's for sure: I won't be able to blame Steve-s for it.
__________________
30 gal standard 55 lbs LR, 60 lb live sand, 10 gal sump/refugium. Urchin skimmer, mag7 pump, 3 x 96W PC combination 10,000K/actinic bulb, 2 blue LED moonlights
SG 1.024, temp 79.5, pH 8.4

Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
midiman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 03:27 PM   #38
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
flanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 740
steve-s, tripple sulpha is designed to treat whitespot. Read the packaging. I used it and it nuked my whitespot. Argue as you may, the bottom line on tripple sulpha is that for me it worked and is meant to treat this problem. I know MANY others that have used it to treat whitespot as well.

I can comment on QT from what I have learnt from dealing with other people and their experiences. People do not have to own something to know about it. Experience comes in many forms, not just one's own living space.

I disagree with your claim that UV are hit and miss. If you set it up correctly, they work, and these people did do that.
flanque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 05:33 PM   #39
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,832
Send a message via Yahoo to quarryshark
Quote:
tripple sulpha is designed to treat whitespot. Read the packaging. I used it and it nuked my whitespot. Argue as you may, the bottom line on tripple sulpha is that for me it worked and is meant to treat this problem.
Sorry, but it is an antibiotic and will have no effect on the parasite itself. May help with a secondary infection....
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products.../Itemdy00.aspx
Perhaps whet you thought was ich, was maybe a bacteria or fungal infection.
Think of the parasite as an invert (really it is). If a med that you are dumping in your display tank is strong enough to kill it, that med would also be strong enough to kill your corals and mobile inverts. So the "reef and/or invert safe" claim shows that a med is not a good parasite killing med. It it were, you would have a total tank wipeout to go along with it. Ask someone that has dumped copper into a display tank, its a mess.
Quote:
I can comment on QT from what I have learnt from dealing with other people and their experiences. People do not have to own something to know about it. Experience comes in many forms, not just one's own living space.
I encourage you to spend some time reading this site's sick fish forum. Or read through the multiple pages of Fenner's forum. It's a recurring theme that the lack of a proper qt period is asking for a disaster.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cryptfaqs5.htm
The staff on this forum will always defend the use of qt. Some of us and many members of this forum have been there and done (or not done) that and many have paid a big price.
__________________
quarryshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 05:40 PM   #40
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 602
Quote:
steve-s, tripple sulpha is designed to treat whitespot
It may be that what you are describing as "white spot" is not marine ich. Marine ich is not caused by bacteria, so antibiotics won't work against it. They may work against secondary infections brought on by ich, but not against the protozoan itself.
__________________

__________________
30 gal standard 55 lbs LR, 60 lb live sand, 10 gal sump/refugium. Urchin skimmer, mag7 pump, 3 x 96W PC combination 10,000K/actinic bulb, 2 blue LED moonlights
SG 1.024, temp 79.5, pH 8.4

Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
midiman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
long

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Long? sarahsunshine Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 4 11-18-2009 10:01 PM
How Long does it take? flushingfish Freshwater & Brackish - Planted Tanks 11 11-01-2006 11:57 AM
How long until I see nitrite? (a bit long) Conesus_Kid Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 3 09-29-2005 06:42 PM
How long?? Saltwater Man Saltwater Reef Aquaria 3 11-26-2004 11:16 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.