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Old 03-08-2005, 10:49 AM   #1
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How long for ich to kill? Is this my problem?

Lost yet another. This time, I noticed whites spots - barely - on my yellow eyed tang. 1 day later he died. Is this ich? Can ich kill without visually seeing the spots?

As some of you know, I've lost many fish and cannot trace the problem. My tank is currently fishless. I try one at a time and they've all died! It's not my water (tested repeatedly at three different lfs). It's not my acclimation (painfully slow and easy). So, has ich been my problem? Last victim was 5 days in my tank.
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:30 AM   #2
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My understanding is that the ich itself is not terminal but that it will eventually get into the gills and killing the fish. I have been told that this would normally take several life cycles of it to infect to that extent. Hopefully someone can add or correct this.
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Old 03-08-2005, 12:04 PM   #3
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I wouldn't say it's impossible for an infestation to be present without easily seeing the spots but I would go as far to say as it's increadibley unlikely. What RMPD109 said is pretty much on the mark. The parasite itself is not what usually kills the fish. It's the suffocating and damaging effect it has on the gills and in some cases secondary infections caused by it's burrowing into the skin. It makes it pretty hard not to know it's there if the infestation is at a level high enough to kill the fish.

More likely it was velvet. Quite often this parasite can do quite a bit of damage unseen and many times is not detected until too late or not at all. Your best solution is to leave the tank fallow for a good 6 weeks to allow whatever parasite may be present to die off. Just be sure in the meantime the tank is still fed every few days to maintain the bacteria.

Please be sure all future fish purchases are QT'd before going into the main.

Cheers
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Old 03-08-2005, 01:03 PM   #4
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It's possible for ich to be present ONLY on the gills of a fish, meaning the white spots may not be easily visible. In addition, ich is not the only "white spot" disease, so it's possible your fish died of something else.

And as far mortality goes, it of course depends on the severity of the infection and the possible secondary infections that can develop. Remember, these parasites are "vampires" in the sense that they are nourishing themselves from the body fluids of their victims. That's why I have come to the conclusion that QT is worth the waiting and general pain in the This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community..

Although I will say that the old story about "ich being present in all tanks" is probably, according to recent research, NOT the case. I only wish I had saved the website with the study results.
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30 gal standard 55 lbs LR, 60 lb live sand, 10 gal sump/refugium. Urchin skimmer, mag7 pump, 3 x 96W PC combination 10,000K/actinic bulb, 2 blue LED moonlights
SG 1.024, temp 79.5, pH 8.4

Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
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Old 03-08-2005, 02:05 PM   #5
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I take it that these parasites are not a threat to crustaceans because all my shrimps and crabs are loving life. Also, would these parasites be a threat to corals? I was thinking of adding some soon.

Thanks again all.
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midiman
It's possible for ich to be present ONLY on the gills of a fish, meaning the white spots may not be easily visible.
Very true, however not all that likely in regards to C. irritans.

Also, please do not bypass the word sensor, it's there for a reason

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Old 03-08-2005, 05:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runway1
I take it that these parasites are not a threat to crustaceans because all my shrimps and crabs are loving life. Also, would these parasites be a threat to corals? I was thinking of adding some soon.
Fish parasites do not affect the health of mobile or sessile inverts so your good to go.

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Old 03-08-2005, 05:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Also, please do not bypass the word sensor, it's there for a reason
The word sensor? Good grief. I didn't use a foul word , I used the letter "a" and two symbols, just like are used in COMIC BOOKS for children, (which I don't think that we are, in spite of the treatment we at times receive).

That warning makes it look like I committed blasphemy in St. Peter's .

It's actually kind of scary, in a Big Brother, Brave New World, "my decisions are made by machines" sort of way.

But, we're here for the joy of the hobby, and I certainly do accept the user agreement, so I'll accept my scolding like a good boy and go back to taking care of my tank, which, thanks to the help of you all out there, is beginning to look pretty (any word remotely violative of the user agreement intentionally omitted from post) good.
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30 gal standard 55 lbs LR, 60 lb live sand, 10 gal sump/refugium. Urchin skimmer, mag7 pump, 3 x 96W PC combination 10,000K/actinic bulb, 2 blue LED moonlights
SG 1.024, temp 79.5, pH 8.4

Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by midiman
But, we're here for the joy of the hobby, and I certainly do accept the user agreement,
So I'll consider the subject closed 8)

Cheers
Steve
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:34 PM   #10
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Except for my fish problem, I hope.
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