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Old 07-25-2011, 06:59 AM   #41
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'on this captain so your know it all attitude doesn't help my current situation,'

I'm just trying to help your fishes situation, nothing else.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:02 AM   #42
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'“Garlic extract had no effect in low amounts (30 mg/L), but at high concentrations (117 and 570 mg/L) it killed the tomocysts within 24 h.”
-This article shows that garlic can actually kill Ich tomocysts, although more garlic is required to be effective compared to malachite green.'

Was wondering if you knew what that level of garlic (117 and 570 mg/L) had on other inhabitants in the enclosed reef tank? What else might it kill along the way? Or was the study done in the lab and only to the parasite?

Might make a difference before someone drops that volume of garlic juice in their tank.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:41 AM   #43
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Oohhh that is a good question I didn't even think about that
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:32 AM   #44
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I haven't heard any problems with it on other inhabitants. The best way to administer it is to soak the food in it, not press pounds of garlic and dump the juice into the water.
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:34 PM   #45
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Sorry, I'm not trying to be a pest here but the sources cited stated a concentration level that killed that parasite. If that's the basis for buying into the garlic cures ich then it seems to follow that the parasite would be killed by contact with the substance, not ingestion..no? Or is it your contention that after consumption the fish would secrete the garlic substance and the parasite would ingest it? If so, then there are a host of other questions that would come to mind.

While I don't doubt that any number of things in certain concentrations can kill a living thing. There is a difference between applying that concentration in a lab setting versus a contained environment.. as well as the ocean in general.

I'll say this, IMO if garlic killed ich and if there was evidence outside of the lab and anecdotal then it would be a HUGE deal. With the $$$$ washed down the drain every day and the needless deaths it would be common knowledge.

I'm not even convinced that there is any true science that garlic enhances a fishes immune system.

I do however have personal anecdotal evidence that when added to food, my fish, on any given day seem to prefer the garlic soaked food. Selcon, eh not so much.

Again, just my opinion
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:49 PM   #46
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I also do not buy that garlic boosts the immune system. As stated before I have never seen anything to support this, just a regurgitated comparison to Vitamin C.

There is evidence that garlic does help treat white spot (not ich in saltwater). Some people have used either freshly pressed garlic of New Life Spectrum's Thera+A formula (seems to be the only food that has enough garlic preserved well enough to treat parasites). The lack of undeniable scientific support (because there is so much in our hobby that has been supported by scientific studies) leads many people to make the comparison that it just boosts the fish's immune system (without explanation) but doesn't directly kill the parasites. In those cases people cite the lack of evidence to discredit the idea that garlic actively kills parasites.

And again, it is not just any garlic. In general only freshly pressed garlic has the chemical that will kill parasites. So all those foods that have garlic added to them and all those liquid additives you can buy at the LFS are not going to do it. This is why there are so few cases demonstrating it, almost no one is using the right type of garlic. I have talked to a couple people who have treated white spot in reefs using only garlic.

Yes, the idea is that if the fish ingests the right form of garlic it will be passed on to parasites.

At the very least this evidence shows that garlic can kill parasites, something many say is not the case or impossible. So at the very least it has the potential to help us treat white spot and other diseases and is a good option to consider when dealing with parasites in a reef.

It won't be 'common knowledge' until it becomes common knowledge. These are recent studies that are only supported by anecdotal examples in the hobby, again because the right forms of garlic are not being used. The more people say 'I used NLS Thera+A/freshly pressed garlic to treat the ich/white spot my discus/tang had' the more people hop on regurgitating "no, it went away on its own, there is nothing showing that garlic can do this, it is just coincidence, read this article that has poorly analyzed references that 'proves' my opinion", this only continues the misunderstanding of exactly that garlic can and cannot do.
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:03 PM   #47
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Well I've been feeding garlic soaked food during this oodinex treatment and it seems every time I do the feed the fish look better (noticeable less white spots) I know thats not hard evidence or scientific research but more of coincidence. or is it?
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:12 PM   #48
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Oodinex has low content of malachite green maybe combined with the fresh garlic soaked food has an effect again not scientific or hard evidence just a thought
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