I am at my wits end

[SoConfused]

Alright, I bought a pre-established 120 gallon tank. I have about 300 lbs of live rock, and I have been adding coral as I go. All of the sudden while I was out of town, my fish got in real bad condition. I had my nanny watching out for them. Right before I left, I did a 50% water change because my nitrates were high. I messed up with the slainity though. I was reading the wrong side of the measure thing and had it at like 1.016. I know, BIG mess up. The fish were also showing signs of Ick at the time, so I started dosing the tank with Ich-Attack. My nanny did as well while I was gone. When I got home, it was obvious that they had gone into a secondary infection. I am going to be honest.... I don't know what the secondary infection is, because it looks as if it could be so many different things...


Well, that night we got home, I started working on getting the skimmer bacak to working right and so on. While I was doing something incredibly simple up top in the tank, I heard a loud BOOM. Ends up, my sump cracked, and my heater busted when it hit the air. I was screwed. I had to shut down my whole system, and with my fish already sick, they just couldn't handle it. I went to bed in tears feeling helpless. The next morning, I woke up to all of my fish gone, and just went back to bed for the day depressed.

I had my great fish store owner who has become my friend come out and she built me a sump that next day. I got it up and running and all of my corals, shrimp, and crabs were ok. I let the tank run for a week or so, and then bought a pair of black clowns. Like clockwork, within 36 hours, they VERY quickly showed skin problems and cloud eye, and overnight they died.

I tested the water... all was fine except the calcium was a little low. One thing though that I have read about here that i have not been resting for is phosphate. I let the tank sit for another few days. I added another set of clowns, a brown tank, a yellow tang, and a yellow tang. Again, Like clockwork, about 38 hours, they start showing up sick. Then go downhill sooo fast. Before they show up sick, they are perfectly fine. Swimming around swiftly, eating like crazy... everything. There is something in the tank that is taking a while to make them sick, but it is very aggressive once it hits. Hospital tanks are not even working, but just the opposite.

I love my tank, I love my fish, and it is just killing me that I don't know what it wrong. I will list what I have been using below.

Ich-attack
Kent Marine Rx-P every other day, even though my anenomies hate it
Then Melafix, and PimaFix alterantely every other day

I have a protein skimmer, A pack of rocks to make sure that the amonia is under check and I also have been increasing the Slalinaty at a pretty good rate but not too agressively. It is up to 1.024 as of today. I know it isn't very cool to see a sick fish, but I am putting up a picture of my blue tang so that maybe someone will be able to give me an idea by looking at it. ANY help is very appreciated.

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: p3290031.jpg

 

[roka64]

First things first, quit dosing your tank with meds. It sounds like you have a few conflicting meds that can be harmful if mixed.
I would run carbon to get the meds out of the tank.
How old is the tank?
It sounds like you may be adding too many fish and your boifiltration is not able to keep up with the heavy bioload.
What are your ammonia.nitrItes reading?
What kind of test kit are you using?

 

[SoConfused]

First things first, quit dosing your tank with meds. It sounds like you have a few conflicting meds that can be harmful if mixed.

Thing is though, I only put them in AFTER the fish are sick. So what is making them sick?

How old is the tank? It has been up and running for 2 years... I bought it about two months ago.

It sounds like you may be adding too many fish and your boifiltration is not able to keep up with the heavy bioload.

If I waited though for two weeks after the first batch of my fish died before adding just two clown fish, wouldn't it have had time to filter?

What are your ammonia.nitrItes reading?

ammonia none, nitrates, none, Nitrites, none

What kind of test kit are you using?

API Saltwater Master Test Kit... but does not have a phosphate check in it... which for some reason I am a little suspicious about.
When I have done water changes, I do it from Tap.

I have a predrilled, bioballs in the side of the tank, I run a skimmer and clean the collection cup very well every day.

about 300 pounds of live rock... which I would have thought would be enough to filtrate in itself, but then I do have the out coming water flowing over the filter as well.

ALSO, my coral and my shrimp are doing fine... whatever this issue is, it is only attacking my fish.


Here is my tank
http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p3300036.jpg[img=http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9540/p3300036.jpg]

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I was thinking more or less like Roka... there's too much changing too quick in your tank to really nail down what the problem is. Between the shotgun approach to meds, the overloading when trying to restock ("another set of clowns, a brown tank, a yellow tang, and a yellow tang"), very low salinity, and someone else taking care of your tank when you weren't there... there's just so many things that could be going wrong.

I'd take a giant step back, take a deep breath, and decide whether or not you think the tank has ich. If it does, then you're going to want to leave it fishless for 6-8 weeks to break the cycle and kill off whatever parasites are remaining. Throw some fish food in every week to keep the bacterial filtration alive if you go that route. After that time period, then I'd just add a couple fish at a time - after a proper quarantine period in a quarantine tank.

As you mention, since your inverts are doing fine, the issue probably isn't water quality. For that same reason, I don't think phosphates are your problem - the corals would be having issues long before the fish if that were the case. You're using a dechlorinator with that tap water, right?

 

[SoConfused]

Well, at first when I got the tank, I just had the fish that had been living in it.....

After I went out of town and had the issue, I only put two clown fish in there.

I was thinking ick as well, but because I was so freaked out I was checking them like every hour lol. It seemed to just go straight to the skin eating looking stuff. If there is something in there that would cause that... what would it be??? Or what could it be??????

I also had read that lowering the salinity might help to speed this process up over the six weeks or so,however, I was worried about what my coral and live rock can take as far as higher temps, and lower salinity.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Well, at first when I got the tank, I just had the fish that had been living in it.....

After I went out of town and had the issue, I only put two clown fish in there. ...

Guess I misread your post. Sounded like everytime you lost fish, you restocked it with a bunch all at once.

Regarding ich... whatever you use to really and truly kill ich will kill inverts too. Going the hyposalinity route (low salinity), you need to keep fish in 1.009 water for 4-6 weeks after you see all the white spots drop off. No inverts will survive that. Also, raising the temperature is often mentioned because it supposedly speeds up the life cycle of the parasite. But it does nothing to kill it. Copper-based meds and hypo are the best normally available methods to kill ich.

From what you describe, it doesn't sound like ich. Not sure what... maybe marine velvet? You might google that and see if it describes what you're seeing.

 

[SoConfused]

Ya, this is a complete mystery to me. Hard part is also.... I have 300 lbs of live rock that I don't want to kill lol. I seem to be at a dead end. If you will scroll up to my first post, i have a link to a picture of my last fish that died with this last group I bought. I know it isn't a pretty picture, I hated even taking it. I knew though that if I was going to get this figured out and not murder anymore fish that i needed to take it for people to look at and give their opinion on. I live in Savannah. I am currently strongly considering looking to see if we have a marine biology something around here with as many colleges as we have... and let them deal with my tank.

 

[melosu58]

Here is some good reading on ich and QT`s

An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

 

[SoConfused]

That is the problem though, i don't think it is ick, because it kills them within less than like 12 hours of looking sick. They show no signs of white dots on their fins or anything. Now, their fins will erode quickly, just as their skin does. I mean, you can literally see it floating off of them.

 

[roka64]

I don't have my book at home, but if you have access to a bookstore, get DR Untergasser's Handbook oif Fish Diseases. There is a specific disease where the skin will flake off like that. My guess is Marine Velvet (I believe there is another one too). Ich won't kill that quick, but peeling skin is one of the end results in a heavily infested fish, along with other secondary infections.
My guess would be the different meds. When I was new, I mixed two meds and killed mt poor clown in less than 2 hours.
Have you considered a QT?
What is your pH?

 

[sooju]

Slow down! (I can totally relate, I bought an established tank last fall and had no idea what I was doing in the beginning.)

I would suggest running carbon to remove the meds and leaving the tank fishless for now. Set up a QT and pick up two new fish and quarantine them for four weeks while your main tank gets cleaned up. Then proceed SLOWLY. Good luck!

 

[roka64]

Ok, are the wounds look like chunks have been taken out and the edges are bloody? (could be TB and yes, you can get it too).
or
Are the spots getting cloudy first and then chunks fall off? (could be Costia).

 

[SoConfused]

no, they just soooooo quickly look like their skin starts pealing off. I mean, they do fine for like a day, but then after about a day and a half, they are all the sudden SICK AS ALL GET OUT! There is no inbetween stage. So, I have just been enjoying my corals the last week. What I am concerned about, is if it is velvet, I can't seem to do any of the things I have read to get rid of it. I have so much live rock and coral, so I can't put in Copper, I can't leave the lights off, again because of the corals, so I don't know.

 

[roka64]

QT would be best....

 

[mr86mister]

I agree with QT. Is there any way that this cause could back track to the LFS? I understand you have a good friend in the hobby. I don't want you to be thinking it is your fault when it may even be the fish store that had the issue and you brought it to your tank. Please look into that to at least try to narrow down your search. If you bought all the fish from the same LFS, I would REALLY look into that.

I hope everything is taken care of for you. I understand the frustration and a bit of pain you are going through. So, keep looking and breath it out!!

 

[SoConfused]

Ya, I am trying... So, quarantine tank my new fish, but I am still not sure how to know how to get the sick tank well I can't put Copper in it and I am hoping that whatever the issue is doesn't eventually get to my fireshrimp... love them! Also, I have a lawnmower blenny (sp?)who seems to just be doing great.... My name here really does my current state of mind justice.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

If it was me, rather than restock quickly, I'd get just one fish and put it in quarantine for the standard 4 weeks. If it seems fine and dandy after that time period, then put it in your main tank. If it comes down with the same issues you've had before, then you can pretty much assume that yes... something is wrong with the main tank. I'd then wait another month just for good measure before buying another fish. That way you won't have someone in your QT in case you need to yank the new one out of the main and stuff it back in the QT.

If all goes well, then go for another one. And of course, if the new fish comes down with the same problems in the quarantine tank (assuming it's been sterilized/cleaned), then you can probably trace the problem back to bad conditions at the LFS.

Oh... like the avatar picture. I just watched "Nemo" again last night after not seeing it since it came out! You don't happen to be shaking the bag when you get the fish, do you?!

 

[SoConfused]

LOL no I don't shake them... but I KNOW the poor fish get scared to death when they see me walk in the store! So hence, the avatar.